45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 7)
Discussion
Countdown said:
Byker28i said:
Easy to win these trade wars...
The Chinese State Council says it’s slapping tariffs ranging from 5% to 10% on $75 billion U.S. goods in two batches effective on Sept. 1 and Dec. 15.
It also said a 25% tariff will be imposed on U.S. cars and a 5% on auto parts and components, which will go into effect on Dec.15. China had paused these tariffs in April.
Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 are when President Donald Trump’s latest tariffs on Chinese goods are to take effect.
So more tit for tat...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/china-to-retaliate...
Dare I suggest that some of China’s trade rules ARE unfair and they are taking liberties?The Chinese State Council says it’s slapping tariffs ranging from 5% to 10% on $75 billion U.S. goods in two batches effective on Sept. 1 and Dec. 15.
It also said a 25% tariff will be imposed on U.S. cars and a 5% on auto parts and components, which will go into effect on Dec.15. China had paused these tariffs in April.
Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 are when President Donald Trump’s latest tariffs on Chinese goods are to take effect.
So more tit for tat...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/china-to-retaliate...
Not saying the Orange Turd’s approach is correct, just that there might be a kernel of justification in tackling China’s business practices.
EU company's were forced to take a minority stake in Chinese company's if they wanted to enter the Chinese market, Chinese firms stealing Western Company's property rights without the Chinese government doing much about it. Chinese on the other hand taking over Western company's and assets etc. without opposition.
But the mighty United Kingdom somehow did nothing to prevent it from happening.
Countdown said:
Byker28i said:
Easy to win these trade wars...
The Chinese State Council says it’s slapping tariffs ranging from 5% to 10% on $75 billion U.S. goods in two batches effective on Sept. 1 and Dec. 15.
It also said a 25% tariff will be imposed on U.S. cars and a 5% on auto parts and components, which will go into effect on Dec.15. China had paused these tariffs in April.
Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 are when President Donald Trump’s latest tariffs on Chinese goods are to take effect.
So more tit for tat...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/china-to-retaliate...
Dare I suggest that some of China’s trade rules ARE unfair and they are taking liberties?The Chinese State Council says it’s slapping tariffs ranging from 5% to 10% on $75 billion U.S. goods in two batches effective on Sept. 1 and Dec. 15.
It also said a 25% tariff will be imposed on U.S. cars and a 5% on auto parts and components, which will go into effect on Dec.15. China had paused these tariffs in April.
Sept. 1 and Dec. 15 are when President Donald Trump’s latest tariffs on Chinese goods are to take effect.
So more tit for tat...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/china-to-retaliate...
Not saying the Orange Turd’s approach is correct, just that there might be a kernel of justification in tackling China’s business practices.
Byker28i said:
I don't think anyone has defended the their trade rules, their stealing of intellectual property, their patent laws (especially when they give them to trump). Just that trumps approach seemed very simplistic, others ended up paying, ruined markets for others such as farmers, cost us consumers...
Couldn't have said it any better, readers comment from the NY times article:https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/business/china-...
China will not be bullied. There are NEVER any winners in a trade war. Dragging down the Chinese economy is dragging down our economy. Our trade deficit with China does not represent theft. It is a product of our excessive consumption versus our lack of saving. Trade is never a bilateral issue. We exist in a global trading environment. Trade is 100% multilateral. The loss of low skilled manufacturing jobs has been caused by free market capitalism which always seeks out the lowest cost of production and that includes automation which has eliminated much of those jobs. Low cost input materials from China feeds American manufacturing which then exports to the rest of the world. They create jobs, lots of jobs. The 1950's are gone and will never return. Trump doesn't know what he is doing. Trump is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Trump will blame everyone and everything else for the death of that goose, and 40% of the nation will believe every word of it.
We're dealing with a generation of politicians world wide with similar political strategy's; Trump, Putin, Bolsonaro and Boris Johnson. All slightly different but all selling easy to digest nationalism to the pleb. Reason and facts are secondary.
In Johnsons Etonian case, make belief Empire and 350m to the NHS.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/b...
Edited by DeltonaS on Saturday 24th August 01:16
But none of these people appeared from nowhere. Public sentiment has been shifting for some time. Not necessarily towards barmy leaders, but seeking something - *anything* - different from before.
As I observed at the time, the same sentiment that brought us Trump also brought us Corbyn, Farage and Johnson.
It is nearly 20 years since I suggested that the “contract” between the governed and the governors was breaking down. People had already stopped trusting the usual political “elite” to act in their best interests. Paternalism was dead. The GFC catalysed those thoughts of mistrust with the unassailable proof that not only could this “elite” not protect us; but actually they were complicit in selling us down the river and then expecting us to pick up the tab.
As is so often the case, populists and opportunists saw the resulting gap before others and dove in; as Brand called him, Farage the “pound shop Enoch Powell” (one Brand’s better lines), and the rest.
The real question is what comes next. We can’t go back, and we can’t stay where we are. So who will be the next leader to capture imaginations, and will they be a little more considered than this bunch?
As I observed at the time, the same sentiment that brought us Trump also brought us Corbyn, Farage and Johnson.
It is nearly 20 years since I suggested that the “contract” between the governed and the governors was breaking down. People had already stopped trusting the usual political “elite” to act in their best interests. Paternalism was dead. The GFC catalysed those thoughts of mistrust with the unassailable proof that not only could this “elite” not protect us; but actually they were complicit in selling us down the river and then expecting us to pick up the tab.
As is so often the case, populists and opportunists saw the resulting gap before others and dove in; as Brand called him, Farage the “pound shop Enoch Powell” (one Brand’s better lines), and the rest.
The real question is what comes next. We can’t go back, and we can’t stay where we are. So who will be the next leader to capture imaginations, and will they be a little more considered than this bunch?
Because it was the same as ever? One party gets into power, runs down the economy, which results in the other party getting into power and trying to fix the economy, so have to make savings, get unpopular, the other party gets into power... rinse and repeat.
Happens in the UK, with Labour everytime, last time exaggerated by the baking crash, but it was due mostly to the relaxed banking laws
Happens in the US, only some of the country didn't like Obama trying to drag the US into the late 20th century, they all prefered to stay in the 50's when, as someone on my last trip the the us said "
s knew their place then...". Mind you he also though Reagan was their last great president "stood up to the russians".
I wonder what he makes of trump... Probably loves him for the white supremacist and over looks any russian involvement as 'fake news'.
Happens in the UK, with Labour everytime, last time exaggerated by the baking crash, but it was due mostly to the relaxed banking laws
Happens in the US, only some of the country didn't like Obama trying to drag the US into the late 20th century, they all prefered to stay in the 50's when, as someone on my last trip the the us said "
s knew their place then...". Mind you he also though Reagan was their last great president "stood up to the russians". I wonder what he makes of trump... Probably loves him for the white supremacist and over looks any russian involvement as 'fake news'.
As for trump - looks like most are unhappy...
President Trump has again tossed out the economic and political playbook that guided other occupants of the Oval Office for generations as the United States dominated the flow of goods and services across the world.
In the space of a few hours, he declared that his own central bank chief was an “enemy,” claimed sweeping powers not explicitly envisioned by the Constitution to “order” American businesses to leave China and, when stock markets predictably tumbled, made a joke of it.
Mr. Trump’s wild and unscripted pronouncements on Friday renewed questions about his stewardship of the world’s largest economy even as he escalated a trade war with China before heading to France for a high-profile summit with the leaders of many of the world’s other major industrial powers.
Even some of his own aides and allies were alarmed by his behavior, seeing it as the flailing of a president increasingly anxious over the dark clouds some have detected hovering over an economy that until now has been the strongest selling point for his administration. They privately expressed concern that he was hurting the economy and was doing lasting damage to his own prospects for re-election.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/politics/tru...
President Trump has again tossed out the economic and political playbook that guided other occupants of the Oval Office for generations as the United States dominated the flow of goods and services across the world.
In the space of a few hours, he declared that his own central bank chief was an “enemy,” claimed sweeping powers not explicitly envisioned by the Constitution to “order” American businesses to leave China and, when stock markets predictably tumbled, made a joke of it.
Mr. Trump’s wild and unscripted pronouncements on Friday renewed questions about his stewardship of the world’s largest economy even as he escalated a trade war with China before heading to France for a high-profile summit with the leaders of many of the world’s other major industrial powers.
Even some of his own aides and allies were alarmed by his behavior, seeing it as the flailing of a president increasingly anxious over the dark clouds some have detected hovering over an economy that until now has been the strongest selling point for his administration. They privately expressed concern that he was hurting the economy and was doing lasting damage to his own prospects for re-election.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/us/politics/tru...
The DOW dropped another 600 points after trumps declaration
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/us-stocks-wall-str...
trumps response? a tweet saying “The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!”
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/us-stocks-wall-str...
trumps response? a tweet saying “The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!”
Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 24th August 08:03
That DOJ memo to judges containing links to white supremacists was the first time, it's happened several times before
An arm of the Justice Department regularly sent summaries and links to articles from an online white nationalist publication over the last year, a BuzzFeed News investigation has found. In addition, similar newsletters sent to the Labor Department, ICE, HUD, and the Department of Homeland Security included links and content from hyperpartisan and conspiracy-oriented publishers.
In daily bulletins about media coverage for the department’s Executive Office for Immigration Review, which runs the nation’s immigration courts, a government contractor sometimes included links to VDare, an anti-Semitic and racist site whose editor who has claimed that American culture is under threat from nonwhite peoples. That contractor, a Dade City, Florida–based company called TechMIS, also compiles newsletters for other agencies, including the Department of Labor, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the Office of Housing and Urban Development.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/...
Obviously the DOJ have been found out as they've now cancelled it
The Justice Department has canceled a news-clip service for employees in its immigration review office after Monday’s edition included a link to and a summary of a blog post from a white-nationalist website that used an anti-Semitic slur, officials said Friday.
In an email Friday, employees at the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) were told that “the Communications and Legislative Affairs Division will no longer distribute a daily news briefing within EOIR,” and were given instructions for how to sign up for a different department-wide briefing service, if they wished to receive those notifications.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/j...
An arm of the Justice Department regularly sent summaries and links to articles from an online white nationalist publication over the last year, a BuzzFeed News investigation has found. In addition, similar newsletters sent to the Labor Department, ICE, HUD, and the Department of Homeland Security included links and content from hyperpartisan and conspiracy-oriented publishers.
In daily bulletins about media coverage for the department’s Executive Office for Immigration Review, which runs the nation’s immigration courts, a government contractor sometimes included links to VDare, an anti-Semitic and racist site whose editor who has claimed that American culture is under threat from nonwhite peoples. That contractor, a Dade City, Florida–based company called TechMIS, also compiles newsletters for other agencies, including the Department of Labor, US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the Office of Housing and Urban Development.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/...
Obviously the DOJ have been found out as they've now cancelled it
The Justice Department has canceled a news-clip service for employees in its immigration review office after Monday’s edition included a link to and a summary of a blog post from a white-nationalist website that used an anti-Semitic slur, officials said Friday.
In an email Friday, employees at the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) were told that “the Communications and Legislative Affairs Division will no longer distribute a daily news briefing within EOIR,” and were given instructions for how to sign up for a different department-wide briefing service, if they wished to receive those notifications.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/j...
In court yesterday a congressional lawyer described the investigation into trumps relationship with Deutsche Bank was more expansive than previously known.
“We are doing an extremely broad investigation,” Mr. Letter said, explaining the committees’ reasons for wanting to see Mr. Trump’s family members’ records as well. “Obviously if you’re laundering Russian money, moving it to the United States, you need to see how it’s handled domestically.”
trump is still fighting to keep his banking records hidden
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/business/trump-...
“We are doing an extremely broad investigation,” Mr. Letter said, explaining the committees’ reasons for wanting to see Mr. Trump’s family members’ records as well. “Obviously if you’re laundering Russian money, moving it to the United States, you need to see how it’s handled domestically.”
trump is still fighting to keep his banking records hidden
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/business/trump-...
During the court hearing Lawyers for Deutsche Bank and Capital One repeatedly refused Friday to tell an appellate court in New York whether the banks are in possession of President Donald Trump's tax returns, citing "contractual obligations" not to disclose the information and drawing the ire of a panel of judges.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/23/politics/trump-...
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/23/politics/trump-...
Byker28i said:
The DOW dropped another 600 points after trumps declaration
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/us-stocks-wall-str...
trumps response? a tweet saying “The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!”
So he agrees that the markets want him out of office?! He made the exact opposite point he thought he was. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/us-stocks-wall-str...
trumps response? a tweet saying “The Dow is down 573 points perhaps on the news that Representative Seth Moulton, whoever that may be, has dropped out of the 2020 Presidential Race!”
Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 24th August 08:03
skwdenyer said:
But none of these people appeared from nowhere. Public sentiment has been shifting for some time. Not necessarily towards barmy leaders, but seeking something - *anything* - different from before.
As I observed at the time, the same sentiment that brought us Trump also brought us Corbyn, Farage and Johnson.
It is nearly 20 years since I suggested that the “contract” between the governed and the governors was breaking down. People had already stopped trusting the usual political “elite” to act in their best interests. Paternalism was dead. The GFC catalysed those thoughts of mistrust with the unassailable proof that not only could this “elite” not protect us; but actually they were complicit in selling us down the river and then expecting us to pick up the tab.
As is so often the case, populists and opportunists saw the resulting gap before others and dove in; as Brand called him, Farage the “pound shop Enoch Powell” (one Brand’s better lines), and the rest.
The real question is what comes next. We can’t go back, and we can’t stay where we are. So who will be the next leader to capture imaginations, and will they be a little more considered than this bunch?
Is this not a case of careful what you wish for and the law of unintended policy consequences played out over generations. As I observed at the time, the same sentiment that brought us Trump also brought us Corbyn, Farage and Johnson.
It is nearly 20 years since I suggested that the “contract” between the governed and the governors was breaking down. People had already stopped trusting the usual political “elite” to act in their best interests. Paternalism was dead. The GFC catalysed those thoughts of mistrust with the unassailable proof that not only could this “elite” not protect us; but actually they were complicit in selling us down the river and then expecting us to pick up the tab.
As is so often the case, populists and opportunists saw the resulting gap before others and dove in; as Brand called him, Farage the “pound shop Enoch Powell” (one Brand’s better lines), and the rest.
The real question is what comes next. We can’t go back, and we can’t stay where we are. So who will be the next leader to capture imaginations, and will they be a little more considered than this bunch?
1) We've created and chased cheap debt and people lapped it up. Good times, right up until it was recognised it's all on borrowed money often being lent poorly.
2) We've chased cheap goods and people lapped them up. Value and choice for the customer, pushed hard by marketers chasing every £ in our pocket flogging us stuff thats nice to have but not really necessary, manufacturers chasing volume and margin in competitive markets. Good times, right up until it was recognised all this supply could only come from importing cheap stuff at the expense of our own manufacturing and UK based businesses and jobs.
3) Utopian planning policies that pushed retail to the outskirts of towns, based on growing car ownership. Good times, right up until it was realised that its killing the high street and hollowing out our urban centres, cars are now being demonised for environmental reasons.
4) Internet shopping, vast choice and immediate delivery and low prices. Good times, right up until it is being realised its killing the high street and out of town locations and allowing massive off-shoring of tax.
5) Encouragement of a shift to diesel to combat CO2 and massive change in peoples car buying choice. Good times, right up until it was reaslised that diesel is pumping out stuff just as bad, if not worse.
There's loads of examples and I don't know what the answer is, but it won't be quick and the genie is out of the bottle so we'll never get back to the 'golden age' if such a thing ever really existed anyway.
Point is that Trump saying that China has somehow stolen US jobs and IP may have some degree of truth, but the push has very much been from consumer demand for greater choice, lower prices and retailer/manufacturers/government and financiers all too happy to chase and satisfy this demand. Good times, right up until the rustbelt and left behind who's livelihood, opportunities and future have been sacrificed to achieve it leaving them to be scraping by while wealth has flowed upwards become a sizeable enough population and fight back.
I've no doubt similar has happened over decades here in the UK and elsewhere and is partially at least a root cause of nationalism generally.
Maybe Trump's general objective has some validity (and I'm no fan) but his approach is ill considered, childish and potentially dangerous. It'll be a generational change winding it back. And even then there will be unintended consequences future generations will either thank us or vilify us for.
Byker28i said:
Because it was the same as ever? One party gets into power, runs down the economy, which results in the other party getting into power and trying to fix the economy, so have to make savings, get unpopular, the other party gets into power... rinse and repeat.
Happens in the UK, with Labour everytime, last time exaggerated by the baking crash, but it was due mostly to the relaxed banking laws
Happens in the US, only some of the country didn't like Obama trying to drag the US into the late 20th century, they all prefered to stay in the 50's when, as someone on my last trip the the us said "s knew their place then...". Mind you he also though Reagan was their last great president "stood up to the russians".
I wonder what he makes of trump... Probably loves him for the white supremacist and over looks any russian involvement as 'fake news'.
He probably wears one of those ‘I’d rather be Russian than a democrat’ Style T-shirt now...Happens in the UK, with Labour everytime, last time exaggerated by the baking crash, but it was due mostly to the relaxed banking laws
Happens in the US, only some of the country didn't like Obama trying to drag the US into the late 20th century, they all prefered to stay in the 50's when, as someone on my last trip the the us said "
s knew their place then...". Mind you he also though Reagan was their last great president "stood up to the russians". I wonder what he makes of trump... Probably loves him for the white supremacist and over looks any russian involvement as 'fake news'.
biggles330d said:
The guy is a solid gold, class A tit.
There's something very wrong with the American democratic and voting system if this is the sort of president that gets elected UNLESS the majority of American citizens actually support hit views. And I can't believe they really do.
America, you really need to know that the comical and random outbursts, twitter led decision making on the hoof, aggressive retorts, hiring and firing of anybody who agrees or disagrees with him and blatantly idiotic stuff that seems to stream from the presidents mouth and thumbs really are making you a laughing stock on the world stage.
Diplomacy dictates that nobody official body is going to tell you that in such blunt terms as there is a respect for the country and the office of president.
Trump is a clown. Is he really the best your great nation can muster?
he isnt clinton. Thats all they cared about in 2016There's something very wrong with the American democratic and voting system if this is the sort of president that gets elected UNLESS the majority of American citizens actually support hit views. And I can't believe they really do.
America, you really need to know that the comical and random outbursts, twitter led decision making on the hoof, aggressive retorts, hiring and firing of anybody who agrees or disagrees with him and blatantly idiotic stuff that seems to stream from the presidents mouth and thumbs really are making you a laughing stock on the world stage.
Diplomacy dictates that nobody official body is going to tell you that in such blunt terms as there is a respect for the country and the office of president.
Trump is a clown. Is he really the best your great nation can muster?
biggles330d said:
The guy is a solid gold, class A tit.
There's something very wrong with the American democratic and voting system if this is the sort of president that gets elected UNLESS the majority of American citizens actually support hit views. And I can't believe they really do.
America, you really need to know that the comical and random outbursts, twitter led decision making on the hoof, aggressive retorts, hiring and firing of anybody who agrees or disagrees with him and blatantly idiotic stuff that seems to stream from the presidents mouth and thumbs really are making you a laughing stock on the world stage.
Diplomacy dictates that nobody official body is going to tell you that in such blunt terms as there is a respect for the country and the office of president.
Trump is a clown. Is he really the best your great nation can muster?
Hundred years ago;There's something very wrong with the American democratic and voting system if this is the sort of president that gets elected UNLESS the majority of American citizens actually support hit views. And I can't believe they really do.
America, you really need to know that the comical and random outbursts, twitter led decision making on the hoof, aggressive retorts, hiring and firing of anybody who agrees or disagrees with him and blatantly idiotic stuff that seems to stream from the presidents mouth and thumbs really are making you a laughing stock on the world stage.
Diplomacy dictates that nobody official body is going to tell you that in such blunt terms as there is a respect for the country and the office of president.
Trump is a clown. Is he really the best your great nation can muster?
I'd love for that to be genuine.
And it is: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mencken-white-ho... It was first checked when it was used to describe Bush jnr, in hindsight it was rolled out way too early.
And it is: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mencken-white-ho... It was first checked when it was used to describe Bush jnr, in hindsight it was rolled out way too early.
Bill said:
I'd love for that to be genuine.
And it is: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mencken-white-ho... It was first checked when it was used to describe Bush jnr, in hindsight it was rolled out way too early.
No it is not.. Shame they added to it rather than using the actual quote... If only they had the sense not to add the narcissist bit but I guess they just couldn't help themselves.. Good try thoughAnd it is: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mencken-white-ho... It was first checked when it was used to describe Bush jnr, in hindsight it was rolled out way too early.
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