How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 11)

[DeepEnd]

psi310398 said:

So, by your own narrative, a dying or at least static UK business extracts value for its shareholders by selling to someone who can see potential in the asset? The bought out shareholders gain access to funds to invest more efficiently elsewhere. Isn’t that a sign that the system is working?

Or would you really prefer to have an asset retained in the UK with dwindling profits simply because UK? What about all those overseas companies in which the UK invests?

Are you talking about fishing quotas?

Good to see Starsky came clean in the end if a bit pedantic about dates.

[crankedup]

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

crankedup said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that CLAAS have invested multi millions into their U.K. head office this year, build still in progress. They have also invested into significantly more stock, the CEO informs that they have every confidence in the U.K. and judging from the investment that seems obvious.
An additional multi billion takeover has just been completed, Green King brewery have agreed a two half billion pound takeover bid from a investor based in Hong Kong. Again a business based in my home town of Bury st Edmunds.

This may come as a shock to some remainers in here, good news on the business front to be celebrated.

Nobody wish to comment upon good news?

Where do the profits end up?

CK holdings have taken over the business, the takeover prompted a 50% increase in share price and the jobs of 38000 workers are said to be secure under the takeover. I have no objection to the takeover under the current favourable conditions, CK Holdings are expected to continue the business strategy and continue working with the current Management of the business.
You specifically ask about where the profits will go from the business, strange question which has an obvious answer I would have thought. Where CK Holdings will re-invest and what % is unknown to me.
Pleased somebody showed some interest

[JNW1]

Mrr T said:

It makes no sense for the EU to allow the UK to remain in EASA.

I'm no expert in the field but when UK airspace is amongst the busiest in the world - and Heathrow is the busiest airport in Europe - why does it make no sense to have the UK as part of the European Aviation Safety Agency? Assuming it wants to continue to participate I'd have thought it makes perfect sense for the UK to continue as a member - how would the EU or the EASA benefit from its exclusion?

[crankedup]

Brooking10 said:

REALIST123 said:

crankedup said:

crankedup said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that CLAAS have invested multi millions into their U.K. head office this year, build still in progress. They have also invested into significantly more stock, the CEO informs that they have every confidence in the U.K. and judging from the investment that seems obvious.
An additional multi billion takeover has just been completed, Green King brewery have agreed a two half billion pound takeover bid from a investor based in Hong Kong. Again a business based in my home town of Bury st Edmunds.

This may come as a shock to some remainers in here, good news on the business front to be celebrated.

Nobody wish to comment upon good news?

No one ever does. Doesn’t fit the agenda for many.

It’s neither particularly good nor particularly bad news, it’s just news.

Headline is that a UK public company has been purchased by an HK co who wish to leverage the beer brands into emerging markets and add to their existing significant UK property assets.

The UK pub estate won’t grow significantly as the market is both challenged and saturated and the beer brands will either be exported in greater numbers or contract manufactured in the Far East. The opportunity for significant further job creation is slim.

The purchase timing is opportunistic and the currency dip made the asset cheap.

The company will be delisted from the UK markets and profits will ultimately leave the UK.

Yes thanks to the low value of the pound businesses are bound to swoop in and buy into established successful businesses. I view it as good news though as it is, on this occasion lifting the share price
50% and securing 38000 jobs. Did you know that Green King is a very diverse business and is looking to increase its diversity? What makes you suggest it will be delisted? And o you think shareholders will agree. As we are in a competitive Global Market it is expected that any wealthy business will eye up good companies, nothing new there. I suppose I am pleased as it shows brexit is not always the purveyor of bad news as some in here like to portray.

[Nickgnome]

crankedup said:

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

crankedup said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that CLAAS have invested multi millions into their U.K. head office this year, build still in progress. They have also invested into significantly more stock, the CEO informs that they have every confidence in the U.K. and judging from the investment that seems obvious.
An additional multi billion takeover has just been completed, Green King brewery have agreed a two half billion pound takeover bid from a investor based in Hong Kong. Again a business based in my home town of Bury st Edmunds.

This may come as a shock to some remainers in here, good news on the business front to be celebrated.

Nobody wish to comment upon good news?

Where do the profits end up?

CK holdings have taken over the business, the takeover prompted a 50% increase in share price and the jobs of 38000 workers are said to be secure under the takeover. I have no objection to the takeover under the current favourable conditions, CK Holdings are expected to continue the business strategy and continue working with the current Management of the business.
You specifically ask about where the profits will go from the business, strange question which has an obvious answer I would have thought. Where CK Holdings will re-invest and what % is unknown to me.
Pleased somebody showed some interest

Brooking10 seems very knowledgeable with regard to MAs. Perhaps a read of his response would be helpful.

It is hard to argue against the position that our very weak pound has allowed foreign buyers some quite cheap opportunities.

Without understanding the share position over the last few years a 50% increase means little. I will also reserve judgement on the employees security until those numbers have been stable for a number of years and their wages not squeezed.

[crankedup]

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

crankedup said:

I mentioned a few weeks ago that CLAAS have invested multi millions into their U.K. head office this year, build still in progress. They have also invested into significantly more stock, the CEO informs that they have every confidence in the U.K. and judging from the investment that seems obvious.
An additional multi billion takeover has just been completed, Green King brewery have agreed a two half billion pound takeover bid from a investor based in Hong Kong. Again a business based in my home town of Bury st Edmunds.

This may come as a shock to some remainers in here, good news on the business front to be celebrated.

Nobody wish to comment upon good news?

Where do the profits end up?

CK holdings have taken over the business, the takeover prompted a 50% increase in share price and the jobs of 38000 workers are said to be secure under the takeover. I have no objection to the takeover under the current favourable conditions, CK Holdings are expected to continue the business strategy and continue working with the current Management of the business.
You specifically ask about where the profits will go from the business, strange question which has an obvious answer I would have thought. Where CK Holdings will re-invest and what % is unknown to me.
Pleased somebody showed some interest

Brooking10 seems very knowledgeable with regard to MAs. Perhaps a read of his response would be helpful.

It is hard to argue against the position that our very weak pound has allowed foreign buyers some quite cheap opportunities.

Without understanding the share position over the last few years a 50% increase means little. I will also reserve judgement on the employees security until those numbers have been stable for a number of years and their wages not squeezed.

Who’s arguing ?

Within a few years the business may have moved again!
The share price dropped over recent years but this lift has brought it back to levels not seen for a number of years. However for the buyers recently this is of course very welcome.
Sitting back and watching for a few years is a luxury only the pensioners may indulge. Personally I see it as an interesting development in my local area.
Together with CLAAS investment it is great news for our local economy nd a nod that brexit is not all bad news as some predict.

[Crackie]

banjowilly said:

andymadmak said:

OK, well, I am sure you want to put it behind you. But we both know that your responses to Crackie were both racist in language (cracker) and homophobic in thought..

But I can see why you would be ashamed of this.

Homophobic in thought?

What??!!! You can read my thoughts? Christ, the absolute state of it. We're done, enough crazies in my life between the kids & the missus without taking any more on, gratis.

Why did you jump to the conclusion that the meme I posted implied you were a homosexual...….nobody else made that link. Other posters also asked why you made that link...........you declined to answer that question though didn't you. Your response was

banjowilly said:

You can ask.

There was nothing to suggest homosexuallity and to make things even clearer the associated Pie link, and the text on the meme, showed the point being made was about virtue signalling identity politics.

You've recently made claims about

banjowilly said:

my sense of patriotism & morality

That doesn't really sit well with someone who also recently made this misogynistic flounce in response to andymadmak and I.

banjowilly said:

I'm going to leave you ladies to it now,

Might be time for another username...……..I have a few suggestions.

banjowilly said:

enough crazies in my life between the kids & the missus

Maybe they can help with a name for you.....

[banjowilly]

Crackie said:

Why did you jump to the conclusion that the meme I posted implied you were a homosexual...….nobody else made that link. Other posters also asked why you made that link...........you declined to answer that question though didn't you. Your response was

Except they did see it for what it was & you can't have failed to have noticed it.

DeepEnd said:

banjowilly said:

Making a meme of two men stood next to each other in a urinal & captioning it 'I'm liberal & progressive' is a massively fking weird way to conduct yourself & even weirder that it apparently needs explaining HTH.

And I will have a good evening, thanks, since you don't feature in it.

Dog whistle homophobic.

It’s all rather fascinating.

The rest of your off topic ramblings are a matter for you. Identity politics Crackie, may well include piling in in support of your pals, uniting against one individual you don't like whilst simultaneously lying by crass omission.

Imagine being so churned up inside that you would hold a grudge this strong & go to these lengths to dredge up a days old pointless argument. I pity you for this sorry, sorry post.

Edited by banjowilly on Tuesday 20th August 15:24

[Nickgnome]

crankedup said:

Who’s arguing ?

Within a few years the business may have moved again!
The share price dropped over recent years but this lift has brought it back to levels not seen for a number of years. However for the buyers recently this is of course very welcome.
Sitting back and watching for a few years is a luxury only the pensioners may indulge. Personally I see it as an interesting development in my local area.
Together with CLAAS investment it is great news for our local economy nd a nod that brexit is not all bad news as some predict.

Like everything in life it is on balance. I do not expect Brexit to instantly bring mass unemployment but it will be a gradual eroding of our position in the world, just like the medium size business that try to live off past glories and watches others grow, merge and benefit from scaleability.

In just a few decades we will have slipped down the global economies scale, which is inevitable due to our population limits.

The Great in Britain was pure luck in geographical size and the vast majority of the brexit voters here are nowhere near influencing our economy in any way. They will in a few years time need someone else to blame for their lot.

The ever weakening pound is looking good though for some of us.

[Mr Penfold]

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

Who’s arguing ?

Within a few years the business may have moved again!
The share price dropped over recent years but this lift has brought it back to levels not seen for a number of years. However for the buyers recently this is of course very welcome.
Sitting back and watching for a few years is a luxury only the pensioners may indulge. Personally I see it as an interesting development in my local area.
Together with CLAAS investment it is great news for our local economy nd a nod that brexit is not all bad news as some predict.

Like everything in life it is on balance. I do not expect Brexit to instantly bring mass unemployment but it will be a gradual eroding of our position in the world, just like the medium size business that try to live off past glories and watches others grow, merge and benefit from scaleability.

In just a few decades we will have slipped down the global economies scale, which is inevitable due to our population limits.

The Great in Britain was pure luck in geographical size and the vast majority of the brexit voters here are nowhere near influencing our economy in any way. They will in a few years time need someone else to blame for their lot.

The ever weakening pound is looking good though for some of us.

The simple fact that you still believe Brexit is a result of people blaming someone else for their lot shows you have learned nothing since the vote.

[Nickgnome]

Mr Penfold said:

Nickgnome said:

crankedup said:

Who’s arguing ?

Within a few years the business may have moved again!
The share price dropped over recent years but this lift has brought it back to levels not seen for a number of years. However for the buyers recently this is of course very welcome.
Sitting back and watching for a few years is a luxury only the pensioners may indulge. Personally I see it as an interesting development in my local area.
Together with CLAAS investment it is great news for our local economy nd a nod that brexit is not all bad news as some predict.

Like everything in life it is on balance. I do not expect Brexit to instantly bring mass unemployment but it will be a gradual eroding of our position in the world, just like the medium size business that try to live off past glories and watches others grow, merge and benefit from scaleability.

In just a few decades we will have slipped down the global economies scale, which is inevitable due to our population limits.

The Great in Britain was pure luck in geographical size and the vast majority of the brexit voters here are nowhere near influencing our economy in any way. They will in a few years time need someone else to blame for their lot.

The ever weakening pound is looking good though for some of us.

The simple fact that you still believe Brexit is a result of people blaming someone else for their lot shows you have learned nothing since the vote.

Unless you are a returnee, I suggest you read through 10 volumes of posts and see how many times the Eu are blamed for all manner of perceived problems.

So perhaps you need to look closer to home to learn a lesson or two. Or it could be of course you disagree with those posters and the EU has been on balance a significant benefit to the UK

[psi310398]

Nickgnome said:

Unless you are a returnee, I suggest you read through 10 volumes of posts and see how many times the Eu are blamed for all manner of perceived problems.

So perhaps you need to look closer to home to learn a lesson or two. Or it could be of course you disagree with those posters and the EU has been on balance a significant benefit to the UK

Or you could be a progressive optimist that believes that Britain is perfectly well equipped and inventive enough to prosper and be able to trade freely and fairly with the whole world without hiding behind trade barriers and other unhelpful protectionism.

[anonymous-user]

crankedup said:

Who’s arguing ?

Within a few years the business may have moved again!
The share price dropped over recent years but this lift has brought it back to levels not seen for a number of years. However for the buyers recently this is of course very welcome.
Sitting back and watching for a few years is a luxury only the pensioners may indulge. Personally I see it as an interesting development in my local area.
Together with CLAAS investment it is great news for our local economy nd a nod that brexit is not all bad news as some predict.

The acquirer is buying every last share in the business, it won’t be tradeable any more after that. The share price bounce reflects the price that is going to be paid for the business as a whole. The transaction is structured in such a way that the major shareholders by value (I believe 75%) will dictate that it goes through even if retail investors disagree.

GK is a good business, it’s not particularly diverse but it’s at the top of its game and represents a steady income stream as one of the last men standing in a significantly reshaped industry. The acquirer loves property assets and so sees realisable value even if there is a downturn in the pub trade.

I would agree with you that the Claas investment is good for the region and likely to have more obvious direct positive impact than the GK transaction.

[Mrr T]

Sway said:

It is not for the EU to decide whether we can be members of EASA.

Indeed, even without being direct members, we can be aligned with EASA processes via associate membership.

Further, the CAA have representation on the ICAO panels - which create the regs which EASA then determines the compliant implementation requirements for.

So you are suggesting the EU cannot decide who can be a member of the EU aviation regulatory body?

Currently only EU members can be full members of the EASA. The EU has agreed the EFTA countries can be non voting associate members.

The EASA can only sign WA, BASA have to be signed by the EU.

[Earthdweller]

Meanwhile the EU now has another potentially damaging issue to deal with as the Italian Govt collapses

https://www.france24.com/en/20190820-italy-pm-gius...

[Mrr T]

JNW1 said:

I'm no expert in the field but when UK airspace is amongst the busiest in the world - and Heathrow is the busiest airport in Europe - why does it make no sense to have the UK as part of the European Aviation Safety Agency? Assuming it wants to continue to participate I'd have thought it makes perfect sense for the UK to continue as a member - how would the EU or the EASA benefit from its exclusion?

If you reduce the attraction of Heathrow as a hub people will have to use other EU airports. That benefits the EU.
It's also not just about airports the UK has a big aerospace industry. Not just making parts but carrying out maintence. If these companies want to continue they will have to set up an EU regulated entity. More jobs in the EU rather than the UK.

[FiF]

Thought this was an interesting point in letters to the editor. To support a general poke at Philip Hammond he criticises the scandalously bad settlement deal for the European Investment Bank.

[quote=Viscount Trenchard (Con)] "Britain owns 16.1 per cent of the EIB. The Withdrawal Agreement provides that Britain will be repaid its nominal capital of €3.5 billion, but will leave its rightful share of the retained earnings, €7.6 billion, for the remaining EU-27 members’ benefit. Worse, Britain only gets back the nominal capital over 12 years in equal instalments, the final one being in December 2030 – and no interest is to be paid during this period.

This EIB settlement is so obviously completely inequitable that it is surprising that it has not yet received much attention.

It’s not as though the EIB can’t afford to buy Britain out at fair value. It makes a profit of around €2 billion a year. It has already approved a pro-rata capitalisation of a small part of its extensive reserves to replace Britain’s paid-in capital.

Ignoring the significant value of deferred payment over 12 years, the £7 billion Britain proposes to give away to the EIB amounts to nearly a fifth of the £39 billion “divorce bill”.

[/quote]

I'm not a financial whizz kid, but it seems to me a fair point to criticise the terms of this deal and why it's not been made more public.

[Nickgnome]

psi310398 said:

Nickgnome said:

Unless you are a returnee, I suggest you read through 10 volumes of posts and see how many times the Eu are blamed for all manner of perceived problems.

So perhaps you need to look closer to home to learn a lesson or two. Or it could be of course you disagree with those posters and the EU has been on balance a significant benefit to the UK

Or you could be a progressive optimist that believes that Britain is perfectly well equipped and inventive enough to prosper and be able to trade freely and fairly with the whole world without hiding behind trade barriers and other unhelpful protectionism.

Perhaps you should read the posters position to which I responded. There is ample evidence here from brexiteers blaming the Eu for all kind of issues they perceive to be problems. They are normally easily dismissed.

Please no not delude yourself that there is such a thing as free trade. The very structure and tax systems of economies distort any real notion of free trade.

Progressive optimism is a phrase I’d expect to hear from Boris and is void of any substance.

When you grow a business it usually involves graft and then more graft. One day if you are lucky a small business becomes quite large. I’d say resilience is not a bad attitude and not sentimental.

[psi310398]

Nickgnome said:

Perhaps you should read the posters position to which I responded. There is ample evidence here from brexiteers blaming the Eu for all kind of issues they perceive to be problems. They are normally easily dismissed.

Please no not delude yourself that there is such a thing as free trade. The very structure and tax systems of economies distort any real notion of free trade.

Progressive optimism is a phrase I’d expect to hear from Boris and is void of any substance.

When you grow a business it usually involves graft and then more graft. One day if you are lucky a small business becomes quite large. I’d say resilience is not a bad attitude and not sentimental.

I think the word graft has another meaning in the EU context...

Are you suggesting that New Zealand or Singapore or Hong Kong don’t live by their hard work and wits? Where is the protectionism they hide behind.

[JNW1]

Mrr T said:

JNW1 said:

I'm no expert in the field but when UK airspace is amongst the busiest in the world - and Heathrow is the busiest airport in Europe - why does it make no sense to have the UK as part of the European Aviation Safety Agency? Assuming it wants to continue to participate I'd have thought it makes perfect sense for the UK to continue as a member - how would the EU or the EASA benefit from its exclusion?

If you reduce the attraction of Heathrow as a hub people will have to use other EU airports. That benefits the EU.
It's also not just about airports the UK has a big aerospace industry. Not just making parts but carrying out maintence. If these companies want to continue they will have to set up an EU regulated entity. More jobs in the EU rather than the UK.

But it's a safety agency and surely the UK's continued participation can only be of benefit in that respect? Your arguments for exclusion appear to centre around economics despite the fact we're told time and time again the EU's about politics.....