Boris Johnson- Prime Minister

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Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
psi310398 said:
This is a useful summary adjusting for the potential removal of the Backstop:

https://brexitcentral.com/reminder-theresa-mays-de...
It broadly covers what I noted, but also gets upset by us effectively still being members for the transition period.

This is why the backstop was so toxic. Without it, we are time limited on that arrangement with the idea we have an FTA at the end of it. So big deal really... We waited nearly 25yrs for a vote, and have had to tolerate Parliamentary incompetence for 3yrs. 2yrs more to actually leave will pass in no time.

If the backstop can be removed then I'm sure it can also be added that new stuff (EU army etc,) is to be excluded... But the chances of that being established and doing anything in the next two years are near zero.

And other items are genuinely useful two way options... Ie they're actually balanced but being portrayed there as not being.

Compromise has to happen somewhere smile

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
jsf said:
p1stonhead said:
It was only 30-ish (I think) votes from passing last time. Without the backstop it would fly through IMO.
No it wasn't.

Why dont you look up the figure and post facts?
Also much water has gone under the bridge since the last votes. There is nothing to say they can be used as a reliable barometer...

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Churchill benefited from the groundwork lard by his predecessors, including chamberlain, in starting rearmament in 1935 onwards.
It gave him the solid base he needed to act upon, without which things would have been very different.
It was collaborative efforts - the work of many, not a single man, no matter how attractive that is to think.

Not sure that equates to the present day UK.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
If we leave on 31st (it’s a big if)
When the typical Brexit voters life is worse (that’s a certainty)
You can hear Johnson & his loony mates saying ‘it’s what you voted for’, washing their hands of the st storm

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
If we leave on 31st (it’s a big if)
When the typical Brexit voters life is worse (that’s a certainty)
You can hear Johnson & his loony mates saying ‘it’s what you voted for’, washing their hands of the st storm
Please describe how a 'Typical Brexit voters' life will be worse?



Oilchange

8,421 posts

259 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
If we leave on 31st (it’s a big if)
When the typical Brexit voters life is worse (that’s a certainty)
You can hear Johnson & his loony mates saying ‘it’s what you voted for’, washing their hands of the st storm
Cool! Can I have a go with your crystal ball, mate?

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
digimeistter said:
Jimboka said:
If we leave on 31st (it’s a big if)
When the typical Brexit voters life is worse (that’s a certainty)
You can hear Johnson & his loony mates saying ‘it’s what you voted for’, washing their hands of the st storm
Please describe how a 'Typical Brexit voters' life will be worse?
While you are at it please describe a typical Brexit voter.

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

134 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Gargamel said:
Escapegoat said:
Well... it's complicated. Boris dithered about Leave/Remain when push came to shove. Now that he looks in the No10 mirror and says to himself "crikey, I've actually bloody gone and done it - me: PM!", I think he will choose whichever path he thinks will provide him the longest time as PM. Calling a GE before Brexit is the most risky approach.

His dream is to be seen as a Churchill-like statesman, but he doesn't have the courage of his convictions to go for it.
Doesn’t have the courage of his convictions ? You’d do spout some utter ste.

Churchill was a pragmatist first and foremost, and (if you’d read Boris’s book on Churchill). You’d surely know that Churchill himself crossed the floor of the commons when it suited him. So to be Churchillian isn’t the same as being inflexible.

The best politicians are surely those that sense the public mood and act accordingly.
Whether they are the best out and out leaders is another matter entirely.

100% of Politicians go into politics to try to do some good in the world, and because of a bit of internal vanity/ego that tells themthat they are capable.

Being ambitious to be PM isn’t unique to Boris, I would wager at least half of NP&E posters would mind a crack at the job either.

There are some seriously weird accusations leveled at Boris Johnson.
You read a lot of things I didn't write. I said BJ - now that he is in the big seat - will do anything to cling on. He will not put anything other than his ego first. And that's what will dictate him calling (or not) a GE.

(Funny you mention that book, ISTR that it was a proper historian who explained on R4 that the book about Churchill explained more about BJ's opinion of himself than it explained Churchill.)

Gargamel

14,957 posts

260 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
Gargamel said:
Escapegoat said:
Well... it's complicated. Boris dithered about Leave/Remain when push came to shove. Now that he looks in the No10 mirror and says to himself "crikey, I've actually bloody gone and done it - me: PM!", I think he will choose whichever path he thinks will provide him the longest time as PM. Calling a GE before Brexit is the most risky approach.

His dream is to be seen as a Churchill-like statesman, but he doesn't have the courage of his convictions to go for it.
Doesn’t have the courage of his convictions ? You’d do spout some utter ste.

Churchill was a pragmatist first and foremost, and (if you’d read Boris’s book on Churchill). You’d surely know that Churchill himself crossed the floor of the commons when it suited him. So to be Churchillian isn’t the same as being inflexible.

The best politicians are surely those that sense the public mood and act accordingly.
Whether they are the best out and out leaders is another matter entirely.

100% of Politicians go into politics to try to do some good in the world, and because of a bit of internal vanity/ego that tells themthat they are capable.

Being ambitious to be PM isn’t unique to Boris, I would wager at least half of NP&E posters would mind a crack at the job either.

There are some seriously weird accusations leveled at Boris Johnson.
You read a lot of things I didn't write. I said BJ - now that he is in the big seat - will do anything to cling on. He will not put anything other than his ego first. And that's what will dictate him calling (or not) a GE.

(Funny you mention that book, ISTR that it was a proper historian who explained on R4 that the book about Churchill explained more about BJ's opinion of himself than it explained Churchill.)
I re-read your post. I can easily see where you wrote about his ego.

It’s good that you totally miss the point of the Churchill reference

That said, I agree he will do all he can to keep the Conservatives in Government, an aim I fully support. However if a GE offers the best prospect then I am pretty sure he will go for it. Trying to run a country with a majority of one and perpetually having to keep the DUP on side is not easy.

Wills2

22,668 posts

174 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Escapegoat said:
You read a lot of things I didn't write. I said BJ - now that he is in the big seat - will do anything to cling on. He will not put anything other than his ego first. And that's what will dictate him calling (or not) a GE.

(Funny you mention that book, ISTR that it was a proper historian who explained on R4 that the book about Churchill explained more about BJ's opinion of himself than it explained Churchill.)
I recall David Starkey not being very impressed with it when doing a feature on This Week.




T-195

2,671 posts

60 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Dominating the coffee table, the mannerless oaf hehe



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383181/B...
Just pretending to be a mannerless oaf, no doubt.

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Dominating the coffee table, the mannerless oaf hehe



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7383181/B...
"Message from Angela - do what you're fking told little Frenchman!"

psi310398

9,036 posts

202 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
I recall David Starkey not being very impressed with it when doing a feature on This Week.



Is David Starkey ever impressed with anybody not called David Starkey:

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
vonuber said:
Churchill benefited from the groundwork lard by his predecessors, including chamberlain, in starting rearmament in 1935 onwards.
It gave him the solid base he needed to act upon, without which things would have been very different.
It was collaborative efforts - the work of many, not a single man, no matter how attractive that is to think.

Not sure that equates to the present day UK.
Did they stock the pantry to see him through the war?

AJL308

6,390 posts

155 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
If we leave on 31st (it’s a big if)
When the typical Brexit voters life is worse (that’s a certainty)
You can hear Johnson & his loony mates saying ‘it’s what you voted for’, washing their hands of the st storm
Is that the same "certainty" which was going to bring about the "immediate and profound" economic depression, a crash in house prices, laying waste to the £ and 850k added to the ranks of the unemployed a week or so after we had voted leave? That certainty?

Le Controleur Horizontal

1,480 posts

59 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
Is that the same "certainty" which was going to bring about the "immediate and profound" economic depression, a crash in house prices, laying waste to the £ and 850k added to the ranks of the unemployed a week or so after we had voted leave? That certainty?
Yep....that will be the one


minimoog

6,853 posts

218 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
alfie2244 said:
Made me smile biggrin
He was just goofing after Macron suggested he could use the table as footstool if he wanted to recline a bit.

Wot larks eh?

minimoog

6,853 posts

218 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
AJL308 said:
"Message from Angela - do what you're fking told little Frenchman!"
lol I'm sure he appreciates you waving his cock for him.

valiant

10,068 posts

159 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
ORD said:
psi310398 said:
Its purpose would be (i) to destroy the Conservative Party and (ii) to provide a focus around which a new opposition would coalesce to repudiate any “stitch up”.

It is open to speculation how successful Farage would be in performing (ii) but I’d imagine (i) would be achieved at the next election.

After all, TBP need not win a single seat: all it has to do is deny the Tories enough votes to ensure that they lose seats. It might manage the same trick in Labour in the Midlands and North.
I think that’s very pessimistic. The BP will disappear after Brexit. It’s a rag bag of loons that currently serves to offer a protest vote.

Very few people are Hard Brexiteers, and even they will get bored of moaning.

I expect the chap spouting racist nonsense above will still pray for a harder Brexit, but he can cry quietly into his warm ale and blame the Frogs for his gout.
I think some on here misjudge the electorate a bit.

People are sick and tired over Brexit, they want it finished, ended and to move on and I don’t think they’re that bothered now on what kind of Brexit we get whether it’s Canada this or Norway that and apart from a minority who are diehard Brexiteers who’ll never be happy unless they crowdfund a few hundred tugs to drag us as far away from the EU as possible, they’ll settle.

If Boris comes back with a hackneyed version of the WA which will be written differently but essentially the same but covered in glitter and fairy dust then I think it will get through.

Whilst politicians have not handled themselves well over all of this they are not blind to how the wind is blowing - they know we’re sick of it and they’ll vote in favour except a few blowhards like Francois and Cash who seem to have lost their voice now JRM has taken his 20 pieces of silver.

Just my two pence worth.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Thursday 22nd August 2019
quotequote all
minimoog said:
alfie2244 said:
Made me smile biggrin
He was just goofing after Macron suggested he could use the table as footstool if he wanted to recline a bit.

Wot larks eh?
They'll be out on the town tonight, downing a few Pernods and pulling a couple of MILFs.
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