Electric Scooters
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
Sway said:
Bugger all difference in braking capability between bike and scooter.
Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
An e-scooter can easily weigh 14kg and have sweet F'all braking capability. That's very little mass difference to a decent commuter bicycle.Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
Resistance from the motor, plus a foot brake.
Way more than I've ever had on a long board - and I've stopped in an emergency from over 30 mph in fewer than 15m. Primarily due to such a low CoG.
Sway said:
Evanivitch said:
Sway said:
Bugger all difference in braking capability between bike and scooter.
Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
An e-scooter can easily weigh 14kg and have sweet F'all braking capability. That's very little mass difference to a decent commuter bicycle.Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
Resistance from the motor, plus a foot brake.
Way more than I've ever had on a long board - and I've stopped in an emergency from over 30 mph in fewer than 15m. Primarily due to such a low CoG.
I simply cannot believe that an e-scooter, on average, can stop or manoeuvre to avoid a collision as well as a bicycle.
oyster said:
Sway said:
Evanivitch said:
Sway said:
Bugger all difference in braking capability between bike and scooter.
Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
An e-scooter can easily weigh 14kg and have sweet F'all braking capability. That's very little mass difference to a decent commuter bicycle.Braking capability being irrelevant of course - impact speed and mass being the pertinent factors, along with points of impact.
Mass is on the scooter's side, as is the point of impact.
Speed could be either depending on exact situation.
Resistance from the motor, plus a foot brake.
Way more than I've ever had on a long board - and I've stopped in an emergency from over 30 mph in fewer than 15m. Primarily due to such a low CoG.
I simply cannot believe that an e-scooter, on average, can stop or manoeuvre to avoid a collision as well as a bicycle.
No brakes at all, and no motor to act as one. Yet can be stopped very rapidly.
Whether you believe it or not - scooters have one method not really available to bikes. Slam it sideways, and drag a rear foot. Very challenging on a bike, absolute doddle on a scooter. Worst case, impact will break a pair of ankles - very different from really quite pointy handlebars/controls hitting vitals.
PF62 said:
It is the belief how they should be used that causes the problem and introduces the danger.
People know you should not ride a bike on the pavement, so the vast majority that do cycle on the pavement realise they should not be there and give pedestrians the 'right of way' and it is only a small minority that ride on the pavement who behave like complete
s.
People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like completes and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.
Rubbish. Possibly a minority behave irresponsibly, as with anything including bike riders, but of those I have seen using escooters in London the majority are not racing down the pavements expecting pedestrians to jump out off the way. People know you should not ride a bike on the pavement, so the vast majority that do cycle on the pavement realise they should not be there and give pedestrians the 'right of way' and it is only a small minority that ride on the pavement who behave like complete
s.People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like complete
s and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.When they are legalised, and they will be, anyone riding one irresponsibly should be penalised, just as they should be now. Thankfully the police are adopting a pragmatic view on current use and only seem to stop people behaving like tits.
The biggest issue with escooters is the dockless hire ones which are ridden after being unlocked by an app. The users have no incentive to leave them in a sensible place or considerably parked once they have reached their destination, in many cases they may be inexperienced riders and are unlikely to have a helmet with them when they rent the things.
Private owners/users are much more likely to wear a helmet and won’t just be dumping the scooter once they have finished with it. They are also more likely (after a short period of ownership ) to be competent when using the things and to maintain and look after it.
The government is so focused on trying to find ways to make dockless hire work they are sitting on their hands and not legalising private use and the benefits it would bring in terms of reduced car use/pollution etc.
Private owners/users are much more likely to wear a helmet and won’t just be dumping the scooter once they have finished with it. They are also more likely (after a short period of ownership ) to be competent when using the things and to maintain and look after it.
The government is so focused on trying to find ways to make dockless hire work they are sitting on their hands and not legalising private use and the benefits it would bring in terms of reduced car use/pollution etc.
Liverpool central, cyclists and any form of personal transport starting with ‘e’ already owns the footpaths as far as they are concerned.
Including the cyclist that rode into me, I had time to brace but nowhere to go thanks to more new build student accommodations which the contractors keep taking half the footpaths with hoardings, cyclist tried to blame me until I got rather annoyed, stepped in his direction and pointed out with many swear words that it is a FOOTpath.
They are a good idea, I am considering something ‘e’ they need regulations though.
Including the cyclist that rode into me, I had time to brace but nowhere to go thanks to more new build student accommodations which the contractors keep taking half the footpaths with hoardings, cyclist tried to blame me until I got rather annoyed, stepped in his direction and pointed out with many swear words that it is a FOOTpath.
They are a good idea, I am considering something ‘e’ they need regulations though.
Agammemnon said:
Sway said:
and I've stopped in an emergency from over 30 mph in fewer than 15m. Primarily due to such a low CoG.
Over half a G of deceleration? Equivalent to 0-60 in less than five seconds? Really?Skip to about 2minutes in...
Four very sticky wheels, thrown sideways pretty rapidly, plus a hand with a lot of upper body weight applied.
Yeah, you stop fast.
Vid is not me by the way!
I’ve ridden bikes for most of my life, so pretty comfortable on them. Biggest risk is other inconsiderate road users - which can include pedestrians!
Only ridden an eScooter briefly, my kids have them. And, ridden sensibly, I would say they are as safe as a bike, but probably more manoeuvrable - with familiarity.
Certainly the brakes were powerful and the stability was excellent.
In aviation, safety is achieved by ‘separation’.
So, planning authorities need to allow pedestrians, cyclists/eBikes/eScooters etc, and large vehicles to operate within their own designated areas.
It’s the mix of users that causes the problems, and every user thinks they have priority.
Only ridden an eScooter briefly, my kids have them. And, ridden sensibly, I would say they are as safe as a bike, but probably more manoeuvrable - with familiarity.
Certainly the brakes were powerful and the stability was excellent.
In aviation, safety is achieved by ‘separation’.
So, planning authorities need to allow pedestrians, cyclists/eBikes/eScooters etc, and large vehicles to operate within their own designated areas.
It’s the mix of users that causes the problems, and every user thinks they have priority.
Sway said:
https://youtu.be/EQPNiezFEGU
Skip to about 2minutes in...
Four very sticky wheels, thrown sideways pretty rapidly, plus a hand with a lot of upper body weight applied.
Yeah, you stop fast.
Vid is not me by the way!
That video was the equivalent of the everyman saying he can stop his car faster without ABS. Skip to about 2minutes in...
Four very sticky wheels, thrown sideways pretty rapidly, plus a hand with a lot of upper body weight applied.
Yeah, you stop fast.
Vid is not me by the way!
Perhaps on occasion and in ideal conditions a longboard will stop that fast, but the reaction time, space and conditions needed to do such are not part of a real-world scenario.
I'm going to test ride an Imokin Light 2 tomorrow. Due to a change in my commuting pattern coming up I need an efficient way to get through the city from Clapham to Kensington which is about 4 miles.
I'm intrigued to see what it's like. My other options are change train and take the tube, a Brompton or other folding bicycle, or Santander bicycle. I reckon the e-scooter will be the quickest and cheapest in the long-run.
I tried a Lime e-bike the other day. It was quite user-friendly and I enjoyed it but at £4.75 for the journey it's too expensive for a return trip daily and no guarantee I can find one when needed.
I'm intrigued to see what it's like. My other options are change train and take the tube, a Brompton or other folding bicycle, or Santander bicycle. I reckon the e-scooter will be the quickest and cheapest in the long-run.
I tried a Lime e-bike the other day. It was quite user-friendly and I enjoyed it but at £4.75 for the journey it's too expensive for a return trip daily and no guarantee I can find one when needed.
Evanivitch said:
Sway said:
https://youtu.be/EQPNiezFEGU
Skip to about 2minutes in...
Four very sticky wheels, thrown sideways pretty rapidly, plus a hand with a lot of upper body weight applied.
Yeah, you stop fast.
Vid is not me by the way!
That video was the equivalent of the everyman saying he can stop his car faster without ABS. Skip to about 2minutes in...
Four very sticky wheels, thrown sideways pretty rapidly, plus a hand with a lot of upper body weight applied.
Yeah, you stop fast.
Vid is not me by the way!
Perhaps on occasion and in ideal conditions a longboard will stop that fast, but the reaction time, space and conditions needed to do such are not part of a real-world scenario.
It's necessary, very rapidly.
I have been watching video after video of these things and I am getting more and more enthusiastic about having one. Could I manage without, of course, but I think they have a significant future.
I have decided on an M365 pro and my man maths says that at £450 odd it's much less than one at £1500. Result, I've saved a grand.
I have decided on an M365 pro and my man maths says that at £450 odd it's much less than one at £1500. Result, I've saved a grand.
If we are going to seriously try to get as many cars off the road as possible and reduce congestion in cities, then we need to press on with making electric bikes and electric scooters as easy to own and use as possible.
I know I have talked about this in other threads, but as a petrolhead who enjoys cars, I fully accept that we will all be forced to accept that:
Cars = Bad
Electric whizzy things doing 15-20mph = Good
(within cities)
I know I have talked about this in other threads, but as a petrolhead who enjoys cars, I fully accept that we will all be forced to accept that:
Cars = Bad
Electric whizzy things doing 15-20mph = Good
(within cities)
Why don't they mandate a max speed of 20mph? With the 20mph limits in towns for all vehicles the speed differential between electric two wheelers and cars would pretty much vanish, along with a load of frustration and probably accidents....
Lord Marylebone said:
If we are going to seriously try to get as many cars off the road as possible and reduce congestion in cities, then we need to press on with making electric bikes and electric scooters as easy to own and use as possible.
I know I have talked about this in other threads, but as a petrolhead who enjoys cars, I fully accept that we will all be forced to accept that:
Cars = Bad
Electric whizzy things doing 15-20mph = Good
(within cities)
I know I have talked about this in other threads, but as a petrolhead who enjoys cars, I fully accept that we will all be forced to accept that:
Cars = Bad
Electric whizzy things doing 15-20mph = Good
(within cities)
nute said:
PF62 said:
It is the belief how they should be used that causes the problem and introduces the danger.
People know you should not ride a bike on the pavement, so the vast majority that do cycle on the pavement realise they should not be there and give pedestrians the 'right of way' and it is only a small minority that ride on the pavement who behave like completes.
People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like completes and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.
Rubbish. Possibly a minority behave irresponsibly, as with anything including bike riders, but of those I have seen using escooters in London the majority are not racing down the pavements expecting pedestrians to jump out off the way. People know you should not ride a bike on the pavement, so the vast majority that do cycle on the pavement realise they should not be there and give pedestrians the 'right of way' and it is only a small minority that ride on the pavement who behave like complete
s.People who ride e-scooters on the pavement believe they should be there, so the majority do ride like complete
s and do not give pedestrians the 'right of way' but believe pedestrians should jump of their way.s with no respect for anyone else.nute said:
When they are legalised, and they will be, anyone riding one irresponsibly should be penalised, just as they should be now.
FFS, what planet do you live on? The is zero chance the police will do anything. Ever.nute said:
Thankfully the police are adopting a pragmatic view on current use and only seem to stop people behaving like tits.
No, they are just ignoring the problem.PF62 said:
Clearly you view world through rose tinted glasses. All the e-scooters I see ridden, both in London and outside are ridden be people behaving like complete s with no respect for anyone else.
I have to say that is not my experience. When I see people using them they are just using them as intended. I see more people walking along acting as dimwits with no respect for others. You could argue that adding scooters into that mix would make it worse, and I would agree, hence the need for separation in some places and the need for courtesy in others. When I get mine, I wont be a nuisance.s with no respect for anyone else.silverthorn2151 said:
PF62 said:
Clearly you view world through rose tinted glasses. All the e-scooters I see ridden, both in London and outside are ridden be people behaving like complete s with no respect for anyone else.
I have to say that is not my experience. When I see people using them they are just using them as intended. I see more people walking along acting as dimwits with no respect for others. You could argue that adding scooters into that mix would make it worse, and I would agree, hence the need for separation in some places and the need for courtesy in others. When I get mine, I wont be a nuisance.s with no respect for anyone else.Likewise.
And I’m sure if bikes were only just invented and coming to prominence, some people would see them as a menace.
And didn’t early cars require a man to walk in front with a red flag
?
Surely it’s just a case of users, rules and our infrastructure adjusting sensibly to progress.
And I’m sure if bikes were only just invented and coming to prominence, some people would see them as a menace.
And didn’t early cars require a man to walk in front with a red flag
?Surely it’s just a case of users, rules and our infrastructure adjusting sensibly to progress.
Koln-RS said:
Likewise.
And I’m sure if bikes were only just invented and coming to prominence, some people would see them as a menace.
And didn’t early cars require a man to walk in front with a red flag?
Surely it’s just a case of users, rules and our infrastructure adjusting sensibly to progress.
You can 100% guarantee that when cars first appeared on the roads, that many people considered them a menace.And I’m sure if bikes were only just invented and coming to prominence, some people would see them as a menace.
And didn’t early cars require a man to walk in front with a red flag
?Surely it’s just a case of users, rules and our infrastructure adjusting sensibly to progress.
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