Discussion
MC Bodge said:
Judging by the amount of time and attention given to the subject by the repressed LD-curious men on here, the message is getting through.
The Lib Dems were, until relatively recently, contenders. They've made it all about Jo Swinson.
They've caused anger with their revoke policy.
Some see that as a disrespect for democracy.
She's diluted the Lib Dem message by taking on Tory turncoats and pushing them to the front of the photographs.
Swinson constantly attacks the character, integrity and capability of Corbyn and BoJo instead of general policy. She then forgets that she needs to be whiter than white when it comes to her own qualities and track record because if she makes it personal then others will shine the spotlight on her personal failings, to the detriment of her party just the same.
Her party spam-bombards our letterboxes with spurious and dishonest leaflets.
This will destroy the Lib Dems. The irony is that she's saying we're tired of the two-party race. Well what she's doing will reinforce the two-party situation.
So yes, I'm interested because she's made what could have been a viable and reasonable alternative party into a shallow, meaningless joke.
Dont like rolls said:
MC Bodge said:
There are a lot of people with a similar view.
It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Yep, the polls show the LibDems are pushing ahead every day !....watch for the late SURGEIt will be interesting to see how it pans out.
it's certainly going to be interesting. There's is the classic senario of voters worrying that if they don't vote for either of the two main parties, they will let the other in. I think there are quite a lot of historically Tory voters who would seriously consider voting Lib Dem, but are prepared to hold their nose and vote for Johnson due to the fear of letting in Labour and thus a Corbyn lead government. Also centre-left leaning voters of course who aren't Corbyn fans but don't want to let a Tory MP in...
Edited by MX6 on Wednesday 11th December 10:47
Me too. MX6 said:
I'm not sure if you are sarcastic or not... The polls seem to have been showing a trend away from Lib Dem's and Brexit party to Cons and Lab during the course of the campaign.
it's certainly going to be interesting. There's is the classic senario of voters worrying that if they don't vote for either of the two main parties, they will let the other in. I think there are quite a lot of historically Tory voters who would seriously consider voting Lib Dem, but are prepared to hold their nose and vote for Johnson due to the fear of letting in Labour and thus a Corbyn lead government. Also centre-left leaning voters of course who aren't Corbyn fans but don't want to let a Tory MP in...
Away from social media bear pits like this one, the Lib Dem policies do appeal to a lot of people, but the big parties will get the votes, despite theirs. it's certainly going to be interesting. There's is the classic senario of voters worrying that if they don't vote for either of the two main parties, they will let the other in. I think there are quite a lot of historically Tory voters who would seriously consider voting Lib Dem, but are prepared to hold their nose and vote for Johnson due to the fear of letting in Labour and thus a Corbyn lead government. Also centre-left leaning voters of course who aren't Corbyn fans but don't want to let a Tory MP in...
Edited by MX6 on Wednesday 11th December 10:47
I dislike the ever increasing "presidential" "personality" politics. People on here are critical of Jo Swinson, but Johnson and Corbyn themselves are both a bit s
t in different ways. Johnson is a blatant chancer/wide boy and doing almost exactly the same "bumbling buffoon" act -with only slightly different words- every time he addresses anybody as he did when I first encountered him in the mid 90s. It seems to amuse some people, but then so does Mrs Brown's Boys.... He is promoting and appealing to ignorance, trying to drag the working classes along with him.
Corbyn is mistrusted, shows no leadership and has had some very dubious associations over the years. He promises all things to all people, with no sense of prioritisation or reality. The anti semitism of Labour has been seized on by some (nasty in their own right) people, but it is there.
It has been said many times, but the oppositional, first past the post parliamentary system that the UK has results in only two "gangs", each trying to tip themselves over into being the biggest by achieving big votes in localised areas by whatever means.
It may suit the Tories (and less so Labour), but it is not a healthy system and is not the only system available.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 11th December 11:22
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I agree that there has certainly been flaws in their campaign. There has been something of an almost presidential style to the GE campaign, true of the Lib Dems but all the others as well, to their detriment and the standard of the political debate generally in my opinion.Personally I see the revoke policy as a plus, a clear unambiguous policy that cuts through, though I can see how that can be seen as not good politics in a way, turning off some potential voters and not really winning remainers who could well have voted for them anyway. I haven't personally received any leaflets from the Lib Dem's, I'm obviously not in a marginal area that they are targeting.
I'm still planning to vote for them, as looking past the leaders and some of the campaign nonsence, their policies and manifesto commitments seem to best fit my policitcal persuasion at this moment in time. But it's a shame that there isn't a stronger centrist party given the space that has opened up in the political centre ground. Given that the Lib Dem are well established and have all the major party apparatus in place, they surely have potential to be a centrist policitical force. I think they could do with a rebranding and some fresh blood coming through, maybe Chuka Umunna could be a decent future leader...
MC Bodge said:
MX6 said:
I'm not sure if you are sarcastic or not... The polls seem to have been showing a trend away from Lib Dem's and Brexit party to Cons and Lab during the course of the campaign.
it's certainly going to be interesting. There's is the classic senario of voters worrying that if they don't vote for either of the two main parties, they will let the other in. I think there are quite a lot of historically Tory voters who would seriously consider voting Lib Dem, but are prepared to hold their nose and vote for Johnson due to the fear of letting in Labour and thus a Corbyn lead government. Also centre-left leaning voters of course who aren't Corbyn fans but don't want to let a Tory MP in...
Away from social media bear pits like this one, the Lib Dem policies do appeal to a lot of people, but the big parties will get the votes, despite theirs. it's certainly going to be interesting. There's is the classic senario of voters worrying that if they don't vote for either of the two main parties, they will let the other in. I think there are quite a lot of historically Tory voters who would seriously consider voting Lib Dem, but are prepared to hold their nose and vote for Johnson due to the fear of letting in Labour and thus a Corbyn lead government. Also centre-left leaning voters of course who aren't Corbyn fans but don't want to let a Tory MP in...
Edited by MX6 on Wednesday 11th December 10:47
I dislike the ever increasing "presidential" "personality" politics. People on here are critical of Jo Swinson, but Johnson and Corbyn themselves are both a bit s
t in different ways. Johnson is a blatant chancer/wide boy and doing almost exactly the same "bumbling buffoon" act -with only slightly different words- every time he addresses anybody as he did when I first encountered him in the mid 90s. It seems to amuse some people, but then so does Mrs Brown's Boys.... He is promoting and appealing to ignorance, trying to drag the working classes along with him.
Corbyn is mistrusted, shows no leadership and has had some very dubious associations over the years. He promises all things to all people, with no sense of prioritisation or reality. The anti semitism of Labour has been seized on by some (nasty in their own right) people, but it is there.
It has been said many times, but the oppositional, first past the post parliamentary system that the UK has results in only two "gangs", each trying to tip themselves over into being the biggest by achieving big votes in localised areas by whatever means.
It may suit the Tories (and less so Labour), but it is not a healthy system and is not the only system available.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 11th December 11:22
But this is the Swinson thread, and for everyone who thinks Swinson is great, there are probably three or four who think she's awful, and that is being reflected here.
On the Corbyn and Johnson threads it's more like 1:99, so take some solace in that!
Thinking of what you've written, MX6, it looks like there'll be nothing left of the party.
A totally new party might as well be formed, but not a single-issue party like JS has made this into. The Lib Dems are too tarnished by the coalition years and this campaign. As much as JS criticises the old, grey men a party needs the experience and wisdom that comes with age as much as the vitality and eagerness of fresh blood. The old guard has gone or has been forgotten because of the very amateur leadership tactics we've seen employed.
A totally new party might as well be formed, but not a single-issue party like JS has made this into. The Lib Dems are too tarnished by the coalition years and this campaign. As much as JS criticises the old, grey men a party needs the experience and wisdom that comes with age as much as the vitality and eagerness of fresh blood. The old guard has gone or has been forgotten because of the very amateur leadership tactics we've seen employed.
SpeckledJim said:
Corbyn and Johnson (deservedly) get MILES more stick than Swinson does.
But this is the Swinson thread, and for everyone who thinks Swinson is great, there are probably three or four who think she's awful, and that is being reflected here.
On the Corbyn and Johnson threads it's more like 1:99, so take some solace in that!
I’m going to vote for the libdems but I don’t even think she’s great, I don’t think anyone on here has said they even like her particularly. Just that their policies seem ok and the other options seem worse. But this is the Swinson thread, and for everyone who thinks Swinson is great, there are probably three or four who think she's awful, and that is being reflected here.
On the Corbyn and Johnson threads it's more like 1:99, so take some solace in that!
I’m not attached to any party ideologically, although I usually vote conservative, I’ve just looked at all of them to see which I think will be best or (more likely) least worse. It’s obvious to me they aren’t going to win a majority or even win my constituency so voting for them won’t help corbyn win and it’s not going to lead to some kind of corbyn and McDonnell cultural and economic Stalinist revolution.
Looks to me like the conservatives gave us brexit and have been in charge for nine years and I don’t really like the direction they’re heading in under Boris so it’s time to place my vote elsewhere.
Unfortunately she is doing a remarkably good job of defining the party in the public eye. She's become the day-to-day personification of the gradual slide into national irrelevance and superficial appeal to amateur politics.
Recent and not-so recent leaders have been in similar vein. The addition to their ranks of failed converts from the other parties are less converted than desperate to achieve self-aggrandising recognition and are an embarrassment. Decimation tomorrow I think.
Recent and not-so recent leaders have been in similar vein. The addition to their ranks of failed converts from the other parties are less converted than desperate to achieve self-aggrandising recognition and are an embarrassment. Decimation tomorrow I think.
Jo Swinson has made a huge strategic error in turning the Lib Dems into the "Stop Brexit" party. Partly because it's undemocratic to challenge a binary referendum result with a multi-party general election, and secondly because she can't deliver it anyway.
In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
Brave Fart said:
Jo Swinson has made a huge strategic error in turning the Lib Dems into the "Stop Brexit" party. Partly because it's undemocratic to challenge a binary referendum result with a multi-party general election, and secondly because she can't deliver it anyway.
In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
I hear what you are saying and you could be right about Swinson making a strategic error, but I think in terms of political pluralism and giving a voice to ardent remainers I'm pleased that they offer something different from the others. I guess that they could have got a decent share of the vote by keeping their heads down and just by not being Johnson or Corbyn, but I'd ideally like parties to have clear and unambiguous positions, not try to be all things to all people.In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
I personal don't have a problem with parties that have policies contary to prior referendum outcomes, I don't think that should mean that given issues, such as brexit obviously, are settled forever more.
Brave Fart said:
Jo Swinson has made a huge strategic error in turning the Lib Dems into the "Stop Brexit" party. Partly because it's undemocratic to challenge a binary referendum result with a multi-party general election, and secondly because she can't deliver it anyway.
In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
I’d agree with this. I’m voting Lib Dem but not because of her. Not particularly fussed if we stay or leave the EU, but at least they have a decision which democratic or not gives some stability to the U.K. In doing this, she's missed a massive opportunity for a genuine centre-ground party. And she'll pay the price for this in 2020 when Chuka Umuna challenges her position.
Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:
vaud said:
Baby Shark doo doo doo doo said:
-
I hate you. Just as I get that damned song out of my head I see one of your posts.Best wishes,
5 little monkeys jumping on a bed.
“Mommy finger mommy finger where are you”
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