Police Officer killed on duty
Discussion
Red 4 said:
citizensm1th said:
eccles said:
I am not advocating using the army to do the police's job but to aid them on specific tasks where they claim they do not have the manpower.
No wonder this country is in such a s
t state what ever happened to a can do attitude. 
You are advocating the armed forces do the police's job though.
Military police tend to be well versed in Army/ Navy/ Air Force Regulations rather than criminal law. (Although they have some knowledge and training).
You are advocating that people with no powers (other than citizen's powers of arrest) take on the travellers.
Realistically, given how some members of the travelling fraternity respond to the police - how do you think they would respond to the military in view of the above ?
The police often have one hand tied behind their back when dealing with travellers.
Soldiers would likely have two.
In the circumstances where a traveller camp is to be raided, then surely what's needed most is physical back up, not everyone going into the camp being Police? Army, Navy, Air Force (ok the last one is a stretch) or private security can all do that job.
At any one time there must be thousands of service personnel doing not a great deal. Let's use them.
The answers stare us in the face but the will isn't there.
Taylor James said:
Shakermaker said:
Taylor James said:
Why are there always enough resources to protect politicians or police major sporting events?
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the policing costs for this are met by the organisers of these events, so a part of your ticket cost to a football match or similar is to pay for the police who are often working overtime to be there?It's interesting that enough Police can always be found for the Premiership and other leagues to run interrupted for decades. Perhaps those officers might want some overtime for operations against traveller criminality instead or as well as? Just a thought.
Until the government give the police a budget to tackle travellers then it just won't happen. I know for a fact that most bobbies would happily come in on overtime and hammer the travellers, f
k it I'd do it for time in lieu but it's just not going to happen until the police have support and resources to do it. We can't just round them up and f
k them off as it just moves the issue to another area and the process starts again. We can't just chuck them all in jail either. They know his and that's why they exploit everyone and everything.Greendubber said:
Taylor James said:
Shakermaker said:
Taylor James said:
Why are there always enough resources to protect politicians or police major sporting events?
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the policing costs for this are met by the organisers of these events, so a part of your ticket cost to a football match or similar is to pay for the police who are often working overtime to be there?It's interesting that enough Police can always be found for the Premiership and other leagues to run interrupted for decades. Perhaps those officers might want some overtime for operations against traveller criminality instead or as well as? Just a thought.
Until the government give the police a budget to tackle travellers then it just won't happen. I know for a fact that most bobbies would happily come in on overtime and hammer the travellers, f
k it I'd do it for time in lieu but it's just not going to happen until the police have support and resources to do it. We can't just round them up and f
k them off as it just moves the issue to another area and the process starts again. We can't just chuck them all in jail either. They know his and that's why they exploit everyone and everything.Taylor James said:
That may be true of football matches. I'm less sure about the Olympics, other sporting events and things like the London Marathon.
It's interesting that enough Police can always be found for the Premiership and other leagues to run interrupted for decades. Perhaps those officers might want some overtime for operations against the traveller criminality instead or as well as? Just a thought.
I thought the Olympics was all voluntary? I know my mate did a stint, though he's only Sussex so quite local, but when I went for the day I saw Yorkshire police, Cumbria police officers all on duty, I don't know what the status was. It's interesting that enough Police can always be found for the Premiership and other leagues to run interrupted for decades. Perhaps those officers might want some overtime for operations against the traveller criminality instead or as well as? Just a thought.
Edited by Taylor James on Monday 19th August 11:42
But yes whilst they might want the overtime, that would surely come from existing budget, rather than the separate amounts that come in for specific events?
Taylor James said:
We know that travellers are treated differently to other citizens and people have had enough of it. I wish this murder could act as a catalyst but until I hear explicit condemnation of criminal traveller behaviour and commitment to stamping it out, I don't believe anything will change.
How do 'we' know?Halb said:
How do 'we' know?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just disregarding all of the evidence that has been offered over this thread or can be found in most local papers several times a year?There's a really simple test for anyone who doubts the premise. Get a couple of mates and go and do some doughnuts on your local park. When the Police arrive, tell them to f
k off and deny all knowledge. Oh ,better still, have a couple of baseball bats in the car. Let us know how you get on.Edited by Taylor James on Monday 19th August 11:53
Taylor James said:
Greendubber said:
Taylor James said:
Shakermaker said:
Taylor James said:
Why are there always enough resources to protect politicians or police major sporting events?
I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the policing costs for this are met by the organisers of these events, so a part of your ticket cost to a football match or similar is to pay for the police who are often working overtime to be there?It's interesting that enough Police can always be found for the Premiership and other leagues to run interrupted for decades. Perhaps those officers might want some overtime for operations against traveller criminality instead or as well as? Just a thought.
Until the government give the police a budget to tackle travellers then it just won't happen. I know for a fact that most bobbies would happily come in on overtime and hammer the travellers, f
k it I'd do it for time in lieu but it's just not going to happen until the police have support and resources to do it. We can't just round them up and f
k them off as it just moves the issue to another area and the process starts again. We can't just chuck them all in jail either. They know his and that's why they exploit everyone and everything.For example, Staffs police I think are cancelling rest days for public order trained officers to allow the force to police football matches. That's quite frankly an outrageous situation and shouldn't be happening but the force dont have the budget to pay for officers to come in on rest day. Imagine that, got a Saturday off and want to see your family and friends? No, your working and you don't have a choice and you're not being paid for it.
The resources football takes up absolutely grips my s
t, the entire policing operation should be paid for by the club's, they can pay players millions of pounds a week after all but don't see a city centre full of their fans and rivals fans as their problem. Its ridiculous. I've worked hundreds of matches and there are loads of police there that could be out visiting burglary victims, patrolling crime hotspots etc but they have to stand there because a bunch of grown men can't travel to a rival club without wanting to have a scrap. Edited by Greendubber on Monday 19th August 11:54
rallycross said:
La Liga said:
It's not a case of granting, it a case of a few anecdotes / experiences don't entitle you to state that the 'majority almost certainly commit crime daily' (paraphrasing).
You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
Stop being a nob, if you know anything about how they behave you would not say that.You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
That doesn't mean you can extrapolate that and conclude (potentially) hundreds of thousands of people behave like that.
Laurel Green said:
Nice to see positive hand in pockets contributions to the tragedy as opposed to the knee-jerk reactions I've just read in the last few pages.
Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
Halb said:
Taylor James said:
Halb said:
How do 'we' know?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just disregarding all of the evidence that has been offered over this thread or can be found in most local papers several times a year?Right, OK< as you were.
Tannedbaldhead said:
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
Sounds reasonable to me. Can’t be too difficult surely...
Taylor James said:
Halb said:
Taylor James said:
Halb said:
How do 'we' know?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just disregarding all of the evidence that has been offered over this thread or can be found in most local papers several times a year?Right, OK< as you were.
La Liga said:
rallycross said:
La Liga said:
It's not a case of granting, it a case of a few anecdotes / experiences don't entitle you to state that the 'majority almost certainly commit crime daily' (paraphrasing).
You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
Stop being a nob, if you know anything about how they behave you would not say that.You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
That doesn't mean you can extrapolate that and conclude (potentially) hundreds of thousands of people behave like that.
La Liga said:
rallycross said:
La Liga said:
It's not a case of granting, it a case of a few anecdotes / experiences don't entitle you to state that the 'majority almost certainly commit crime daily' (paraphrasing).
You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
Stop being a nob, if you know anything about how they behave you would not say that.You're talking about (if the upper estimates are correct) hundreds of thousands of people.
How do you not see how obviously flawed that 'logic' is?
That doesn't mean you can extrapolate that and conclude (potentially) hundreds of thousands of people behave like that.
A properly funded and manned police force able to properly and thoroughly investigate all crimes in an unprejudiced manner and bring to bear sufficient resources to deal with public order issues should certain communities react in an illegal manner should they take umbrage would be sufficient to deal with the problem.
Knee-jerk gypsie bashing will deal with nothing.
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 19th August 12:07
Tannedbaldhead said:
Nice to see positive hand in pockets contributions to the tragedy as opposed to the knee-jerk reactions I've just read in the last few pages.
Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
Good post Army policing civilians, hanging, shooting, flogging, locking up forever, internment without trial, failure to adhere to due process and rule of law. All nonsense and none of which fits with living in a modern Western democracy.
All we need is a properly funded sufficiently manned and resourced police force and prosecution service enforcing an unchanged justice system to ensure all crimes committed by all sectors of society are methodically and camly investigated with suspects being identified, evidence collected and brought to bear against said suspects resulting in a successfull prosecution.
Halb said:
Taylor James said:
Halb said:
Taylor James said:
Halb said:
How do 'we' know?
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just disregarding all of the evidence that has been offered over this thread or can be found in most local papers several times a year?Right, OK< as you were.
Tannedbaldhead said:
This is a problem that will only be solved with resoarces.
A properly funded and manned police force able to properly and thoroughly investigate all crimes in an unprejudiced manner and bring to bear sufficient resources to deal with public order issues should certain communities react in an illegal manner should they take umbrage would be sufficient to deal with the problem.
Knee-jerk gypsie bashing will deal with nothing.
So do you agree that crimes and anti-social behaviour by travellers should be treated the same way as if they were committed by non-travellers?A properly funded and manned police force able to properly and thoroughly investigate all crimes in an unprejudiced manner and bring to bear sufficient resources to deal with public order issues should certain communities react in an illegal manner should they take umbrage would be sufficient to deal with the problem.
Knee-jerk gypsie bashing will deal with nothing.
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 19th August 12:07
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