If shenanigans in the House lead to a General Election

[MC Bodge]

turbobloke said:

MC Bodge said:

techiedave said:

I will just add that I genuinely think that whatever happens folk will on the whole get through it all.

And the ones that don't?

The madness is that we need not have to "get through it all". There is no upside to it...

Except that for the millions who disagree there is an upside (becaise short-term economics wasn't the only consideration for them, and too many economists/prophets don't know what day it is in any case) and these voters may have a profound impact on the next GE if it's called sooner rather than later.

The emotional bit won't actually be an upside. Those who are dissatisfied and grumbling now will still be dissatisfied and grumbling. Placing a huge expectation on leaving The EU will almost certainly result in disappointment.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong,
"It's not about the EU".

[anonymous-user]

MC Bodge said:

turbobloke said:

MC Bodge said:

techiedave said:

I will just add that I genuinely think that whatever happens folk will on the whole get through it all.

And the ones that don't?

The madness is that we need not have to "get through it all". There is no upside to it...

Except that for the millions who disagree there is an upside (becaise short-term economics wasn't the only consideration for them, and too many economists/prophets don't know what day it is in any case) and these voters may have a profound impact on the next GE if it's called sooner rather than later.

The emotional bit won't actually be an upside. Those who are dissatisfied and grumbling now will still be dissatisfied and grumbling. Placing a huge expectation on leaving The EU will almost certainly result in disappointment.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong,
"It's not about the EU".

Exactly. The kind of person ranting about the E.U. being the root of all evil, will just move on to ranting about western liberal governments or environmentalists or pc gone mad or the UN or lefties or the BBC or young people or experts or foreigners or women etc

[MC Bodge]

El stovey said:

Exactly. The kind of person ranting about the E.U. being the root of all evil, will just move on to ranting about western liberal governments or environmentalists or pc gone mad or the UN or lefties or the BBC or young people or experts or foreigners or women etc

It's very evident, to the point of being obvious, but amazing how unaware so many people are of themselves and of human nature.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

MC Bodge said:

The emotional bit won't actually be an upside. Those who are dissatisfied and grumbling now will still be dissatisfied and grumbling. Placing a huge expectation on leaving The EU will almost certainly result in disappointment.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong,
"It's not about the EU".

Aren't we all just miserable failures blaming our poverty and dissatisfaction on a handy scapegoat and looking to sabotage the party for those more successful than ourselves?

Apparently leaving on WTO terms means we are about to see our successful and contented neighbours take a financial hit, free spirited internationalists having to fill in a mountain of paperwork and pay fees for their jet set lifestyle, companies moving abroad causing millions of job losses, goods rationed or unavailable. It's all upside for the bitter and envious, who don't go abroad or buy anything imported anyway.

Your best chance of making this Schadenfreudean support Remain is if Richard Branson, Tony Blair and all the rest of those cheerfully successful wkers suddenly joined the Brexit Party.

[AshVX220]

I'm not up on all the mechanics of how such things happen, so can someone enlighten me as to what could cause a general election now?

Am I right in thinking that the only two realistic options are;

Tories calling a GE,
MP's succeeding in a vote of no confidence in the current government.

Or are there others?

Currently I can't see the Tories calling for one and I can't see a VONC actually winning, or am I missing something?

[JuanCarlosFandango]

AshVX220 said:

I'm not up on all the mechanics of how such things happen, so can someone enlighten me as to what could cause a general election now?

Am I right in thinking that the only two realistic options are;

Tories calling a GE,
MP's succeeding in a vote of no confidence in the current government.

Or are there others?

Currently I can't see the Tories calling for one and I can't see a VONC actually winning, or am I missing something?

AIUI either 2/3rds of parliament has to vote for one or a VONC in the PM, followed by a failure to find a suitable replacement in a reasonable period of time, which is not defined.

Neither seem especially likely, and the "reasonable time" could probably be kicked into November already given the amount of parliamentary time available.

[MC Bodge]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

MC Bodge said:

The emotional bit won't actually be an upside. Those who are dissatisfied and grumbling now will still be dissatisfied and grumbling. Placing a huge expectation on leaving The EU will almost certainly result in disappointment.

To paraphrase Lance Armstrong,
"It's not about the EU".

Aren't we all just miserable failures blaming our poverty and dissatisfaction on a handy scapegoat and looking to sabotage the party for those more successful than ourselves?

Apparently leaving on WTO terms means we are about to see our successful and contented neighbours take a financial hit, free spirited internationalists having to fill in a mountain of paperwork and pay fees for their jet set lifestyle, companies moving abroad causing millions of job losses, goods rationed or unavailable. It's all upside for the bitter and envious, who don't go abroad or buy anything imported anyway.

Your best chance of making this Schadenfreudean support Remain is if Richard Branson, Tony Blair and all the rest of those cheerfully successful wkers suddenly joined the Brexit Party.

I think there is some truth in that. Maybe even for some of that caricature-like uber-capitalist right wingers on here.

Leaving the EU appears to be seen by some fanatics' as a "war", er, "victory", that they can claim credit for.

[Lily the Pink]

MC Bodge said:

Leaving the EU appears to be seen by some fanatics' as a "war", er, "victory" "defeat"...

FTFY, though I might have misunderstood your point, depending on what word you meant to include after <fanatics'>.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

MC Bodge said:

Leaving the EU appears to be seen by some fanatics' as a "war", er, "victory", that they can claim credit for.

I wouldn't say leavers have a monopoly on that attitude. It wasn't leavers who threatened to go off and start their own parliament if they couldn't get their way in the existing one, like Rory Stewart. Nor do I remember leavers coming up with a dozen different ideas for "unity" governments to impose their minority view on everyone else, even when it became obvious that May's government was engaged in an ambitious fraud to try and keep us in.

[powerstroke]

Still amazed that the head country of the commonwealth is the only one that isn't independent ,
And the same country that fought so hard for democracy 70 odd years ago is subservient to the nation that caused
so much death and destruction along with the previous enemy we sacrificed so many lives to free .... funny old world eh...

[bitchstewie]

powerstroke said:

Still amazed that the head country of the commonwealth is the only one that isn't independent ,
And the same country that fought so hard for democracy 70 odd years ago is subservient to the nation that caused
so much death and destruction along with the previous enemy we sacrificed so many lives to free .... funny old world eh...

Grow up.

We're not at war and Germany are not the bloody enemy any more.

[powerstroke]

bhstewie said:

powerstroke said:

Still amazed that the head country of the commonwealth is the only one that isn't independent ,
And the same country that fought so hard for democracy 70 odd years ago is subservient to the nation that caused
so much death and destruction along with the previous enemy we sacrificed so many lives to free .... funny old world eh...

Grow up.

We're not at war and Germany are not the bloody enemy any more.

True they won in the end and we just need to be humble I get that ..

[bitchstewie]

powerstroke said:

True they won in the end and we just need to be humble I get that ..

Which wars have you fought in?

[biggles330d]

powerstroke said:

bhstewie said:

powerstroke said:

Still amazed that the head country of the commonwealth is the only one that isn't independent ,
And the same country that fought so hard for democracy 70 odd years ago is subservient to the nation that caused
so much death and destruction along with the previous enemy we sacrificed so many lives to free .... funny old world eh...

Grow up.

We're not at war and Germany are not the bloody enemy any more.

True they won in the end and we just need to be humble I get that ..

This is the problem. We're still clinging on to 60 year old grudges and attitudes while the world has generally moved on. The war, as terrible as it was, is history. Past. Gone. Much of the reunifying efforts that have laid these ghosts to rest has been though things like the EU and a generally shrinking world that has been enabled by transport and technology. Yet I'm constantly disappointed and despair at the number of Brits who keep harping on about it.

As I see it, Germany is successful for a number of reasons, but by far the greatest among them are the particular way their industrial sector is owned and structured with much local investment, family ownership and public authority interest (ownership or share) - nothing that the UK couldn't have chosen to engineer over the decades had we not chosen to follow a more capitalist political dogma - absolutely nothing to do with being in or out of the EU. And at a macro level, simply demographics. Germany happens to be geographically located very well for the continent of Europe, so following every economic logic of consolidation and centralisation, inevitably, things end up around Benelux/Germany. I.e., it would probably be pretty hard for them NOT to do well in a global trading environment.

It's hardly their fault, but being an island with a relatively small population on the periphery of a major land mass has disadvantages. Being part of the EU has very successfully allowed us (and many other peripheral regions of Europe) to mitigate these disadvantages.

[MC Bodge]

powerstroke said:

Still amazed that the head country of the commonwealth is the only one that isn't independent ,
And the same country that fought so hard for democracy 70 odd years ago is subservient to the nation that caused
so much death and destruction along with the previous enemy we sacrificed so many lives to free .... funny old world eh...

I'm actually embarrassed for you.

The past is another country, especially the nostalgic past.

[anonymous-user]

As I said I genuinely think that whatever happens folk will on the whole get through it all.
The wound up ones on both sides will just have to find a way to get along.
It's always been the way in this country.

[anonymous-user]

techiedave said:

As I said I genuinely think that whatever happens folk will on the whole get through it all.
The wound up ones on both sides will just have to find a way to get along.
It's always been the way in this country.

Wise words as ever from techiedave.

Although perhaps people in this country haven’t always got along, or do you mean they always found a way in the end?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_in_Grea...

[eldar]

techiedave said:

As I said I genuinely think that whatever happens folk will on the whole get through it all.
The wound up ones on both sides will just have to find a way to get along.
It's always been the way in this country.

A few years ago, I’d have agreed.

This is different, in that Brexit is a symptom, not really important. It doesn’t matter what happens.

The problem is the country is divided, deeply and long term. Political parties are becoming irrelevant and slowly dying, being replaced by single issue pressure groups.

The two sides won’t get along, the squabbling will continue and increase, the two sides are equally balanced and infected by extremists, any vaguely Brexit discussion ends in shouting, insults and bad feeling.

Classic lose/lose. Fun to watch the fighting, though.

[Lily the Pink]

eldar said:

This is different, in that Brexit is a symptom, not really important. It doesn’t matter what happens.

The problem is the country is divided, deeply and long term. Political parties are becoming irrelevant and slowly dying, being replaced by single issue pressure groups.

The two sides won’t get along, the squabbling will continue and increase, the two sides are equally balanced and infected by extremists, any vaguely Brexit discussion ends in shouting, insults and bad feeling.

Classic lose/lose. Fun to watch the fighting, though.

I agree with that. All except your last sentence.

[anonymous-user]

Lily the Pink said:

eldar said:

This is different, in that Brexit is a symptom, not really important. It doesn’t matter what happens.

The problem is the country is divided, deeply and long term. Political parties are becoming irrelevant and slowly dying, being replaced by single issue pressure groups.

The two sides won’t get along, the squabbling will continue and increase, the two sides are equally balanced and infected by extremists, any vaguely Brexit discussion ends in shouting, insults and bad feeling.

Classic lose/lose. Fun to watch the fighting, though.

I agree with that. All except your last sentence.

Is it really divided? Outside PHs or the news, do you have arguments about brexit at work or with your friends or with people in the pub?

Nobody I know ever talks about brexit at all anymore, in a for or against way. Obviously it creates practical problems and planning issues to mitigate against but people I know aren’t divided about it or arguing about it despite probably voting in different ways. It’s like religion or politics or masturbating etc. People just don’t talk about it.

There was a bit of discussion pre and post referendum but now everyone’s totally fed up with it. Even on social media my Facebook friends don’t mention it at all. It’s just not that important.