80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany

80 years ago today - Britain Declares War on Germany

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Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.

Chamberlains full broadcast here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcSnKArKz8E&lc...

Penelope Stopit

11,209 posts

108 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Thank you

This may be of interest to you https://archive.org/details/WWII_News_1941

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
That will be worth diving into. I'll try and keep this thread going on a "On This Day in World War 2" theme.

Obviously, on this day, Britain, having received no reply to its ultimatum to Germany to withdraw its forces from Poland, had no choice but to declare war. As soon as the broadcast linked above was finished, the air raid sirens went off. It turned out that it was a false alarm (some RAF Blenheims had failed to activate their Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) equipment properly and were wrongly identified as enemy aircraft.

Zirconia

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
SS Athenia sunk by a U boat this day. Start of a very bitter campaign.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Zirconia said:
SS Athenia sunk by a U boat this day. Start of a very bitter campaign.
Mentioned on TV last night.

The U-Boats started as they intended.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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ash73 said:
Eric Mc said:
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.
Interesting to ponder. It certainly had a big effect on the future of Europe, and accelerated the collapse of the British Empire, but we won so did it change much here? Was it more significant than Attlee defeating Churchill in 1945, and creating the NHS and welfare state?
I would argue that WW1 was more significant for the UK.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
ash73 said:
Eric Mc said:
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.
Interesting to ponder. It certainly had a big effect on the future of Europe, and accelerated the collapse of the British Empire, but we won so did it change much here? Was it more significant than Attlee defeating Churchill in 1945, and creating the NHS and welfare state?
Absolutely. The impetus for the changes that came about after the war did so BECAUSE of the war. There was determination amongst the people of Britain that the post war world must be better and fairer than that which had existed pre-war. Of course, it is hard to predict what might have happened if the war hadn't happened - or if Britain had sued for peace in May 1940. However, that is NOT what happened and the world of September 1945 was profoundly affected by the events of the previous six years.

In a way, I would prefer not to engage in "what if" type debates on this thread. I would like it to be reflective on the actual events of the period from 3 September 1939 to 15 August 1945 rather that speculation on things that didn't happen.

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.

Chamberlains full broadcast here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcSnKArKz8E&lc...
Never listened to it in full, I wonder how society today would cope with the immediate closure of cinemas or large gatherings for amusement of entertainment (I imagine this includes Rugby, Football etc).

I guess a healthy dose of moaning towards the government!


Edited by ZOLLAR on Tuesday 3rd September 12:22

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
That's exactly what happened. So, after a short period, cinemas, theatres and dance halls reopened (and some indeed did get hit by bombs and people did die). But the public preferred to take their chances than be stuck at home listening to ITMA on the radio.

Interesting point on spectator sports. Motor racing obviously stopped - as did football (apart from the odd military services related matches). However, I think horse racing continued for the duration. Maybe someone can clarify that?

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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s2art said:
I would argue that WW1 was more significant for the UK.
I second this. It does, however, feel strange that my grandparents' war, which I grew up with as our cultural background is now 80 years ago.

It makes me wonder if we take peace for granted, or if MAD has made world war redundant when there's money to be made.

aeropilot

34,301 posts

226 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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As the numbers of people around at the time get ever fewer, the events of the time, and attitude of the day to them, became more unconnected with those that have no understanding of them.

I can still recall the stories from my younger days from my father, mother and grandmother about "What they were doing, the day war broke out". In my maternal grandmothers case, twice, as she could recall the day war was declared in 1914 as well.




ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
s2art said:
I would argue that WW1 was more significant for the UK.
I second this. It does, however, feel strange that my grandparents' war, which I grew up with as our cultural background is now 80 years ago.

It makes me wonder if we take peace for granted, or if MAD has made world war redundant when there's money to be made.
Indeed, I think need or want to make money these days may well prevent many conflicts on a world stage (consequently it can be a cause on a smaller scale) however once resources (water, food, precious metals) become scarce and without a viable alternative I suspect the risk of a World War will increase.

theplayingmantis

3,721 posts

81 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
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cricket also stopped on the main. Lords was used after a while for exhibition matches of sorts to provide light relief.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
I don't want to argue over the extent of the significance of WW2 over WW1 is as it will take away from a thread on WW2. We've had the 100 year anniversary of the Great War so I'd like to move on to WW2 on this thread.

As far as Chamberlain's speech is concerned, of course it was significant as it was the announcement to the population that they were now involved in a war, the outcome of which was extremely uncertain and which, for all they were concerned, could result in the annihilation of the country. There was grave concern as to how effective mass bombing was going to be - especially if gas was going to be used. In 1939 it was widely assumed that gas attacks by bomber aircraft would be standard practice - possibly by all the participants.

It was the chief reason why there was mass evacuation of children out of London and other major metropolitan areas.

aeropilot

34,301 posts

226 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
ash73 said:
We didn't win the war because a politician made a grand speech. Imagine the brief moment when code breakers at Bletchley Park first saw a German message decrypted; it probably shortened the war by years and saved millions of lives.
Equally, as many war shortening events were due to pure luck, or even due to the 'bad' decisions made by the 'other' sides.

Eric Mc

Original Poster:

121,784 posts

264 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
theplayingmantis said:
cricket also stopped on the main. Lords was used after a while for exhibition matches of sorts to provide light relief.
I think the RAF took over Lords and used it as their initial induction centre for those reporting for duty.

2xChevrons

3,159 posts

79 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
That's exactly what happened. So, after a short period, cinemas, theatres and dance halls reopened (and some indeed did get hit by bombs and people did die). But the public preferred to take their chances than be stuck at home listening to ITMA on the radio.

Interesting point on spectator sports. Motor racing obviously stopped - as did football (apart from the odd military services related matches). However, I think horse racing continued for the duration. Maybe someone can clarify that?
It did. In one of Nicholas Monsaratt's accounts (published in 'real time' while he was serving on corvettes in the Atlantic and North Sea) he talks at some length about the low opinion (to put it mildly) he and his shipmates have to people who waste the oil and fuel they (and many others) have expended so much effort and risk to get across the Atlantic. The case that riles him up most of all is bookmakers and semi-professional gamblers who can register a racetrack as their place of work and so get an extra few gallons per month on the fuel ration.

Actually, I've just gone and got the book so I can quote it in full. It's also a good insight into how the cultural image of everyone cheerfully pulling together in adversity, while often true, was also countered by an awful lot of selfishness, rule-bending/breaking, profiteering and chance-taking. I don't think it would be any different today because people really haven't changed much.

"Petrol-wanglers, like traitors, merit a special hell. Probably enough has been written about the hazards of bringing an oil-tanker across the Atlantic, and the fate of the ones that don't make it, to establish the background and impress it on the dullest mind. None of it has been exaggerated; tankers are dynamite, and their crews are heroes of a particular quality. What, then, is one to make of people who license their private cars as taxis, in order to get extra coupons; who obtain additional petrol to attend church on Sunday and then don't go; who play golf by taxi (an isolated bit of lunacy, this); who drive hundreds of miles to a race-meeting already served by special trainsl who treat petrol as if it could be got from a tap? What sort of men are they? Stupid? Incurably selfish? Traitorous? Do they feel clever when they've got their extra whack? Does it give them a sense of power to know that men, foolishy valorous, have fought and perished in hundreds, just to keep their cars ticking over sweetly? Once again, ten such are not worth the skin of the who dies for them; and one sometimes wishes they could be individually flayed, just to prove it in simple terms. If there is bitterness in that last section, it is probably my own. I once saw some men failing to escape from a sinking tanker. Ever since then, that been what I mean by 'petrol coupons'. Each coupon is alive - to start with.

(Author's Footnote to the Above: I see that it has now been declared legal to put down one's place of business as 'Tattersall's Ring, So-and-so Racecourse' and that a journey there (in the capacity of bookmaker) counts as work sufficiently vital to warrant an extra issue of petrol. I wish I had heard this earlier; I am sure many a merchant seaman we have fished out of the water would have died the easier for knowing it."

theplayingmantis

3,721 posts

81 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
theplayingmantis said:
cricket also stopped on the main. Lords was used after a while for exhibition matches of sorts to provide light relief.
I think the RAF took over Lords and used it as their initial induction centre for those reporting for duty.
they did, but a quick google says they didn't use the playing area or pavilion, so games could continue in the 40's at least

CaptainSlow

13,179 posts

211 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
s2art said:
I would argue that WW1 was more significant for the UK.
I second this. It does, however, feel strange that my grandparents' war, which I grew up with as our cultural background is now 80 years ago.

It makes me wonder if we take peace for granted, or if MAD has made world war redundant when there's money to be made.
WW1 was certainly a more significant event for a number of reasons.

JagLover

42,266 posts

234 months

Tuesday 3rd September 2019
quotequote all
s2art said:
ash73 said:
Eric Mc said:
The most significant event affecting this country of the 20th century.
Interesting to ponder. It certainly had a big effect on the future of Europe, and accelerated the collapse of the British Empire, but we won so did it change much here? Was it more significant than Attlee defeating Churchill in 1945, and creating the NHS and welfare state?
I would argue that WW1 was more significant for the UK.
Definitely

That signalled the end of the first age of globalisation and, for Britain, marked the start of the end of empire as well,