Time to stop plugging classics as investments?
Discussion
I get Classic Cars magazine delivered each month. Despite the now acknowledged long term drop in classic car values, it seems that every month we are being told with a big shouty front page headline what classics to buy now.
This was October’s: “Hot 30 Classics to buy in 2020. Market experts tip the fastest climbers.”
Now November: “Clever buys for smart drivers. Why these innovators are tipped for growth.”
Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but on average the market has been depressed for 3 or 4 years now. Shouldn’t the magazines just be extolling the virtues or otherwise of the cars themselves, rather than encouraging readers to part with their hard-earned on the false implied promise of making a sound financial investment?
This was October’s: “Hot 30 Classics to buy in 2020. Market experts tip the fastest climbers.”
Now November: “Clever buys for smart drivers. Why these innovators are tipped for growth.”
Of course there will be exceptions to the rule, but on average the market has been depressed for 3 or 4 years now. Shouldn’t the magazines just be extolling the virtues or otherwise of the cars themselves, rather than encouraging readers to part with their hard-earned on the false implied promise of making a sound financial investment?
If you stopped these silly headlines then Count Quentin would be out of a job. It only seems to be Classic Cars that has these ever repeated headlines though.
I wonder if anyone's gone back over the issues from 12-18 months ago and seen how well these 'investment opportunities' have actually done, especially once inflation and holding costs are taken into account?
I wonder if anyone's gone back over the issues from 12-18 months ago and seen how well these 'investment opportunities' have actually done, especially once inflation and holding costs are taken into account?
Classic car magazines are just a ruse to sell ads.
As per J D Classics fiasco, the reader of the 'editorial' can expect very little in terms of honest and knowledgeable advice.
On the other hand, this site nails it.
https://wolfstreet.com/2019/09/22/asset-class-of-v...
As per J D Classics fiasco, the reader of the 'editorial' can expect very little in terms of honest and knowledgeable advice.
On the other hand, this site nails it.
https://wolfstreet.com/2019/09/22/asset-class-of-v...
I suppose the long term question is
Is it a dip and level out of prices ?
The biggest problem now i is speculators are still buying the stuff that has climbed steeply in the last few years, in the belief its better option than money in the bank.
No doubt fingers will get singed but seriously burned i dont think so
Is it a dip and level out of prices ?
The biggest problem now i is speculators are still buying the stuff that has climbed steeply in the last few years, in the belief its better option than money in the bank.
No doubt fingers will get singed but seriously burned i dont think so
soxboy said:
I wonder if anyone's gone back over the issues from 12-18 months ago and seen how well these 'investment opportunities' have actually done, especially once inflation and holding costs are taken into account?
To be honest, most of them had already gone up in value, long before Classic Cars finally jumped on the bandwagon. There were very few real “sleepers” in their shopping lists. Take the latest 6 as examples. Surely these have long-since plateaued, if not gone down in value?
Ferrari Dino 246GT, early Mk1 Mini, early suffix A Range Rover, Audi Quattro, Citroen DS and bit of a wild card in the UK 1958 Cadillac.
LotusOmega375D said:
soxboy said:
I wonder if anyone's gone back over the issues from 12-18 months ago and seen how well these 'investment opportunities' have actually done, especially once inflation and holding costs are taken into account?
To be honest, most of them had already gone up in value, long before Classic Cars finally jumped on the bandwagon. There were very few real “sleepers” in their shopping lists. Take the latest 6 as examples. Surely these have long-since plateaued, if not gone down in value?
Ferrari Dino 246GT, early Mk1 Mini, early suffix A Range Rover, Audi Quattro, Citroen DS and bit of a wild card in the UK 1958 Cadillac.
Of the above list, I would agree that most of those seemed to have plateaued or even dropped over the last 12-18 months. They also have the common denominator that to get good money you have to have the best examples, and to get them to be the best examples will cost you a hell of a lot more than any uplift in value. Something the magazines conveniently forget.....
I suppose my two cars have "lost" about £200,000 since the top of the market but then like most of us here I was never into them as an investment at all. A person here at Le Mans asked for my help selling a car he had bought at auction but he insisted on getting his money back, which including £20,000 of auction fees was never feasible. But he has hung on to the car, and now has a serious loss on his hands, which I don't think he'll ever recover. My age group are now popping our clogs fast, and if younger people are wanting to buy then they either have to be pretty rich or the prices have to drop quite a lot. I mean, what would you pay for this car in today's market? Looks quite nice, doesn't it.
Now look closer.
[/img]|https://thumbsnap.com/Bug1GcOa[/url]
Now look closer.
[/img]|https://thumbsnap.com/Bug1GcOa[/url]
The sirry iriot paid over £100,000 for it at an auction in Marseilles. It is a 61 flat floor (or should that be no floor?) with 25,000 on the clock and was pulled out of a container in Nigeria. The best bid I got was £60,000 and that will have dropped again now. The restoration will eat £100,000 at least. As you say, virtually worthless.
lowdrag said:
The sirry iriot paid over £100,000 for it at an auction in Marseilles. It is a 61 flat floor (or should that be no floor?) with 25,000 on the clock and was pulled out of a container in Nigeria. The best bid I got was £60,000 and that will have dropped again now. The restoration will eat £100,000 at least. As you say, virtually worthless.
Is that the situation now? What would a 25k miles flat floor with a quality restoration go for, do you thin in today's market? Its an interesting no mans land. Too expensive for a home restorer to do - who is going to buy a 100k car that's been restored by an amateur? But not viable to have a professional restore.
Top go back to the original post - I subscribed to both Classic Cars and C&SC for 20 or so years up until about 6 years ago. I cancelled my subscriptions and gave away my collection for several reasons, but the gradual shift away from talking about the cars to talking about the cars as investments was one of the reasons.
Some will say that a flat floor is worth more simply because it is the first iteration of this great classic but most would not want one because they are just too cramped to drive any distance, I'm 6' and I speak from experience!
The classic car market, like most, has always been cyclical. At Lynx we were always being asked about guaranteed appreciation and we always said that you should buy a car, or any other commodity you fancied, because you liked and wanted it enough to spend the money to own it. To buy any other way is to speculate and that is risky, we all know that.
The media, newspapers and magazines, do speculate - on what will happen if....., on how much you might make, it is their stock in trade and it sells product. Unfortunately there are only a few magazines about interesting cars so we have to put up with the guff they print, or not - I stopped taking Motor Sport years ago because I became completely fed up with Bill Boddy forever banging on about the law making us wear seat belts and crash helmets!
The classic car market, like most, has always been cyclical. At Lynx we were always being asked about guaranteed appreciation and we always said that you should buy a car, or any other commodity you fancied, because you liked and wanted it enough to spend the money to own it. To buy any other way is to speculate and that is risky, we all know that.
The media, newspapers and magazines, do speculate - on what will happen if....., on how much you might make, it is their stock in trade and it sells product. Unfortunately there are only a few magazines about interesting cars so we have to put up with the guff they print, or not - I stopped taking Motor Sport years ago because I became completely fed up with Bill Boddy forever banging on about the law making us wear seat belts and crash helmets!
A car could be a smart long term investment.
A 90s bought Gullwing, 50s, 60s and even 70s exotic is worth so much more today.
Anyone who bought an F-model 911 in the last 10 years with the idea to make money bangs his or her head now. Values are dropping.
Anyone who bought an F in the 90s though...
A 90s bought Gullwing, 50s, 60s and even 70s exotic is worth so much more today.
Anyone who bought an F-model 911 in the last 10 years with the idea to make money bangs his or her head now. Values are dropping.
Anyone who bought an F in the 90s though...
Norfolkandchance said:
Is that the situation now? What would a 25k miles flat floor with a quality restoration go for, do you think in today's market?
Well, my flat floor has done 7,000 miles since a 100% rebuild in 2014. It would have been more but a back operation has meant that it is not so easy as before. But anyway to the point. I'd value mine at, say, £125,000 if I was lucky. If it was an outside lock car somewhat more. And Mike, I am with you 100%. Cramped, seats with a rib across your back that after 200 miles feels like a branding iron, a gearbox that was invented before synchromesh was invented - but then, why let logic and comfort influence the illogical market?
Edited by lowdrag on Wednesday 25th September 09:34
This topic continues to come up along with “why modern classic will go up next”
The reality is, we won’t see rises in value, the like of which have been seen recently
Public perception toward ICE is being steered in a negative direction.
ULEZ zones will increase with local authorities pushing an agenda to raise revenue by charging drivers of older cars who wish to drive in their areas.
The young are increasingly disinterested in cars.
Current sub 25 year olds are very unlikely to want or aspire to something like an E type. There will be older boys who want this stuff for a while to come but long term, it’s not looking good.
Unless your car is ultra low miles, mint, historically important or very low volume, ideally all- you won’t be seeing a big rise on anything bought now.
The reality is, we won’t see rises in value, the like of which have been seen recently
Public perception toward ICE is being steered in a negative direction.
ULEZ zones will increase with local authorities pushing an agenda to raise revenue by charging drivers of older cars who wish to drive in their areas.
The young are increasingly disinterested in cars.
Current sub 25 year olds are very unlikely to want or aspire to something like an E type. There will be older boys who want this stuff for a while to come but long term, it’s not looking good.
Unless your car is ultra low miles, mint, historically important or very low volume, ideally all- you won’t be seeing a big rise on anything bought now.
Norfolkandchance said:
Top go back to the original post - I subscribed to both Classic Cars and C&SC for 20 or so years up until about 6 years ago. I cancelled my subscriptions and gave away my collection for several reasons, but the gradual shift away from talking about the cars to talking about the cars as investments was one of the reasons.
Yes I agree. Classic cars just seems purlely about the value, Octane value plus the snob appeal of each vehicle.I am probably giving up on C&SC soon ( I can say that now haymarket dont own pistonheads anymore). But the one-marque magazines are still an excellent read I find.
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