Lad killed by US wrong side driver, who's done a bunk...
Discussion
The USA protects its military personnel from prosecutions of, virtually, any act committed overseas. There is a provision for them to be prosecuted in the USA but this is limited, in practice, to low ranking military personnel.
They can, and do, seek to prosecute foreign nationals for offences committed in other countries, including their own. UK subjects have been guilty of low-level offences in England/Wales have been extradited to the USA and charged with much more serious offences. Reciprocity is, at best, limited. This woman, even if she has no diplomatic immunity, will not be extradited to the UK.
MacKinnon is a case in point. He committed the offence in this country and, one would assume, should be tried in this country. There is a slight imbalance in penalty as well.
They can, and do, seek to prosecute foreign nationals for offences committed in other countries, including their own. UK subjects have been guilty of low-level offences in England/Wales have been extradited to the USA and charged with much more serious offences. Reciprocity is, at best, limited. This woman, even if she has no diplomatic immunity, will not be extradited to the UK.
MacKinnon is a case in point. He committed the offence in this country and, one would assume, should be tried in this country. There is a slight imbalance in penalty as well.
Diplomatic immunity is a minefield and it stinks in cases like this.
However we and 141 other countries signed up to it knowing the likely consequences and abuses so can't really complain.
I remember poor PC Fletcher shot and killed by someone from the Libyan embassy in 1984 in London.
All the occupants of said embassy were allowed to leave unmolested under diplomatic immunity. That really rankled.
'Vienna convention and diplomatic protection
The protection of diplomats and their official premises is based on the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961, an international treaty; it was signed by 141 countries, including the UK and Libya. It was incorporated into UK law in the Diplomatic Privileges Act 1964. among other measures, the act protects diplomats from prosecution for any crime unless the diplomat's home country waives his right to immunity. A country can declare a diplomat from another state to be persona non grata, and demand that they leave the country, but no other action can be taken against them. Diplomatic premises are also protected from entry by the police or security services, unless given permission by the country's ambassador.[15][16]'
The best we can hope for in this case now the suspect is back in the US is some formal apology, a payment and public hand wringing by the US.
I suspect the miscreant's husbands diplomatic career is now likely over as well.
RIP the poor victim..
However we and 141 other countries signed up to it knowing the likely consequences and abuses so can't really complain.
I remember poor PC Fletcher shot and killed by someone from the Libyan embassy in 1984 in London.
All the occupants of said embassy were allowed to leave unmolested under diplomatic immunity. That really rankled.
'Vienna convention and diplomatic protection
The protection of diplomats and their official premises is based on the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961, an international treaty; it was signed by 141 countries, including the UK and Libya. It was incorporated into UK law in the Diplomatic Privileges Act 1964. among other measures, the act protects diplomats from prosecution for any crime unless the diplomat's home country waives his right to immunity. A country can declare a diplomat from another state to be persona non grata, and demand that they leave the country, but no other action can be taken against them. Diplomatic premises are also protected from entry by the police or security services, unless given permission by the country's ambassador.[15][16]'
The best we can hope for in this case now the suspect is back in the US is some formal apology, a payment and public hand wringing by the US.
I suspect the miscreant's husbands diplomatic career is now likely over as well.
RIP the poor victim..
peterperkins said:
The best we can hope for in this case now the suspect is back in the US is some formal apology, a payment and public hand wringing by the US.
I suspect the miscreant's husbands diplomatic career is now likely over as well.
RIP the poor victim..
I doubt much will be said or done, at least in the public domain. To the USA, such an action would show weakness. I doubt there's any problem for the hubby either. He could sue.I suspect the miscreant's husbands diplomatic career is now likely over as well.
RIP the poor victim..
The captain of the USS Vincennes, the one who shot down a civilian IranAir flight, 655. The plane had just taking off and was climbing steadily. Two missiles were launched, killing all 290 aboard. Rogers, who ordered the firing despite protestations, was allowed to remain in charge of the Vincennes for a further year and then, on return, was awarded some obviously misnamed medal of honour. The black box to 655 was retrieved and retained by the US.
The yanks paid some money to Iran.
I don't think the US really care what others think.
Usually in cases like this any decent nation would withhold diplomatic immunity and allow the justice system in the nation where it happened to take place. What that says about America you tell me. America can be utter 
s sometimes with things like this.
I hope this woman cant sleep at night for the rest of her life with the guilt of what she has done.
s sometimes with things like this.I hope this woman cant sleep at night for the rest of her life with the guilt of what she has done.
Derek Smith said:
I doubt much will be said or done, at least in the public domain. To the USA, such an action would show weakness. I doubt there's any problem for the hubby either. He could sue.
The captain of the USS Vincennes, the one who shot down a civilian IranAir flight, 655. The plane had just taking off and was climbing steadily. Two missiles were launched, killing all 290 aboard. Rogers, who ordered the firing despite protestations, was allowed to remain in charge of the Vincennes for a further year and then, on return, was awarded some obviously misnamed medal of honour. The black box to 655 was retrieved and retained by the US.
The yanks paid some money to Iran.
I don't think the US really care what others think.
Absolutely true Derek, the US has shown scant regard but they're not alone unfortunately. The captain of the USS Vincennes, the one who shot down a civilian IranAir flight, 655. The plane had just taking off and was climbing steadily. Two missiles were launched, killing all 290 aboard. Rogers, who ordered the firing despite protestations, was allowed to remain in charge of the Vincennes for a further year and then, on return, was awarded some obviously misnamed medal of honour. The black box to 655 was retrieved and retained by the US.
The yanks paid some money to Iran.
I don't think the US really care what others think.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Would diplomatic immunity cover her (or her employer?) from a civil case as well or only criminal?
Aguably not now that the driver has returned to the US.The UKSC in Reyes v Al Malki (2017) summarised the position -
Diplomatic immunity is not an immunity from liability. It is a procedural immunity from the courts of the receiving state.
During their diplomatic mission, a diplomat (and family members forming part of his or her household) is generally immune from the criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving state.
The Convention draws a fundamental distinction between the acts of a diplomat which are performed in the exercise of an “official function” as a member of a diplomatic mission and those which are not. The former are immune because they are committed on behalf of the sending state. The immunity of the latter acts of a diplomat in their personal or non-official capacity is justified on the pragmatic basis that it facilitates diplomatic relations. With limited exceptions (the main one concerns “any professional or commercial activity” outside a diplomat’s official functions) the diplomatic immunity of diplomats (as opposed for example to the administrative and technical staff of a mission) covers both types of acts, official and private.
However, once a diplomat’s posting comes to an end, his or her immunity after leaving the receiving state (or on expiry of a reasonable time in which to leave) subsists only in respect of acts performed in the course of exercising official functions on behalf of the sending state.
Thus a claimant could issue a wrongful death claim in an English court, apply to the English court for permission to serve the claim on the defendant in the US, and then sue the defendant in England. The tricky part would come when seeking to enforce a judgment in the US.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 5th October 19:19
Interestingly a large protest outside the RAF base involved today, with a good turnout. Connected to the case, or just the anti war lot, I am not sure, but a few guys I know at Merc f1 said they took a run over after work to see the scene after hearing about the case in the news and it was rammed outside with some sort of protest.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes. PC Yvonne Fletcher's case is the best (worst) example of this point.A diplomat could commit a murder and not be prosecuted. In practice, most states would waive immunity in such a case.
See above re civil proceedings after the diplomat or family member goes home.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 5th October 19:36
Pinoyuk said:
Chances are people know who she is .This could include UK Police etc . Also witnesses .In this day of social media .Wont belong before her name pops up. Then her pic and then a public spanking .
They know who she is, she was cooperating with inquiries and wasn't thought that she would leave, but her whole family left the country suddenly.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff