Brexit, what have you learnt

[fridaypassion]

I'm genuinely interested how they are affected now, today.

Nothing on the ground should really change until the end of the transition period which at the lower end of a guess will be 2 years.

[PositronicRay]

That people chatting in forums demand 'evidence' but are happy with any old pony trotted out by their favoured politicos.

[B'stard Child]

Camoradi said:

techiedave said:

JustALooseScrew said:

My mum would agree with you.

Do you have a piccie of your mum please ?

One of the main reasons I dip my toe in NP&E is techiedave's contributions

Deadpan approach no smilies................................

[anonymous-user]

fridaypassion said:

I'm genuinely interested how they are affected now, today.

What exactly do you think our politicians have been doing for the last 3 years? The answer, is Brexit. It's cost something like £900 million already in direct costs, and the total bill is estimated to be at least £2 billion. And whilst our politicians are wrestling with the impossibility of Brexit they aren't doing their a job on the rest if the issues they should be dealing with. The NHS, crime, Economy, transport, infrastructure, climate change, pretty much everything else has been ignored these last few years.

[GSalt]

fridaypassion said:

I'm genuinely interested how they are affected now, today.

Nothing on the ground should really change until the end of the transition period which at the lower end of a guess will be 2 years.

EU citizens in the UK are already having to apply for Setled Status, not register (which was the promise) but to apply. Approximately 40% are being offered the lesser of the two available residence statuses available - Pre-Settled Status, which is short-term and offers no certainty. The Security Minister, Brandon Lewis, announced that EU citizens that don't achieve Settles Status could face deportation. After twenty years working for the same employer my wife was asked to provide her passport last week to prove her entitlement to work in the UK. Despite her having supplied her new UK passport (not a cheap to get) at her previous DBS check.

I'm aware of ex-pats in Spain and Portugal receiving notice that they may no longer be eligible for state healthcare after 31st October and asked to provide details of their private health insurance if they intend remaining in the country.

The "transition period" only occurs if a Deal is agreed. I've heard far too many Leavers claim that it occurs even if there's No Deal.

[markcoznottz]

Pan Pan Pan said:

SpeckledJim said:

GSalt said:

What's the risk if Article 50 is just quietly revoked?

The threat is riots, but whilst the Remain camp have shown they can field up to a million people on the streets in well mannered protests with no arrests, the Leave camp haven't managed more than a couple of hundred at an organised protest, or a few dozen thugs shouting off about Sharia law after a session in the local 'Spoons.

It's as though there's only one side that really care enough about the outcome to get off the sofa.

Remarkable conclusion to draw when the time to get off the sofa and really affect the result was on Referendum Day.

And your side did it in fewer numbers than the side you're now calling lazy.

And even this, was after a booklet from the government which `should' have been impartial, and which cost the UK taxpayer 9 million pounds was issued to every household.
Not forgetting that the government gave those too lazy to get their a*ses off the sofa extra time to get their votes in.
Let us not forget that BOTH sides used lies to enhance their campaigns.
And lets not forget that the government allowed the remain side to spend more on their campaign than they allowed the leave side to do, But remain STILL lost!

Good post. And a fair assessment. I think the rot was started by blairs attitude to this country with the refusal to restrict immigration from the new eu member states in 2004. It's about immigration, it's always that, it still is now. The referendum didn't change anything. The issues with changing the demographic makeup of the uk are still here, and are now part of everyday dialogue. Ideological victory for new lab but with long term implecations. Rampant house price increases and reckless credit distracted people until 2008 and the recession. In order to boost GDP immigration is now a fiscal tool. More immigration means people not voting as the politicians would like, see ukip. This leads to referendums.

[Coolbanana]

GSalt said:

EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU are ALREADY being adversely affected NOW.

It may be a complex issue, but you could at least make an attempt to keep up.

Here in Portugal if you don't qualify for the Golden Visa they give you 5 years Residency in a matter of...oooo, 5-6 minutes. After that you apply for Citizenship having met the 5 year criteria.

Not sure how any UK Citizen - like myself - could be negatively affected by Brexit unless they rely upon the Pound for their income; as many do, granted but it could go the other way again eventually.

Not met a local UK Citizen yet who is terribly bothered. All seem to agree Brexit is dumb but that's about it. I'm sure some I haven't met support it though.

[fridaypassion]

GSalt said:

EU citizens in the UK are already having to apply for Setled Status, not register (which was the promise) but to apply. Approximately 40% are being offered the lesser of the two available residence statuses available - Pre-Settled Status, which is short-term and offers no certainty. The Security Minister, Brandon Lewis, announced that EU citizens that don't achieve Settles Status could face deportation. After twenty years working for the same employer my wife was asked to provide her passport last week to prove her entitlement to work in the UK. Despite her having supplied her new UK passport (not a cheap to get) at her previous DBS check.

I'm aware of ex-pats in Spain and Portugal receiving notice that they may no longer be eligible for state healthcare after 31st October and asked to provide details of their private health insurance if they intend remaining in the country.

The "transition period" only occurs if a Deal is agreed. I've heard far too many Leavers claim that it occurs even if there's No Deal.

I would certainly sympathise as it's reintroducing the idea of EU citizens being "foreigners" which I personally think is a bit of a shame as people forget that it cuts both ways and we have lots of "foreign" pensioner propping up Spain's economy as well as countless opportunities for us to go and work in Europe.

They have to do something though and if it's an employers duty to check legal status of their workers they have to do it. I would assume other people like Landlords will need to do this now as well. It might seem harsh but we are separating ourselves from the EU so these things have to be gone through. I would think in the main it will always be easy for someone from the EU to come and settle in the UK and it will be equally easy for us to go over to France/Spain wherever to do the same.

The departure from the EU is only a political thing we still have years of no very tight cultural ties to Europe and our futures are interwoven very closely now for generations to come there may even be continued free movement yet. Don't forget we havent seen what a free trade agreement looks like with the EU yet and I suspect however it's dressed up it will be tied in by light friction movement of people in and out of the EU. I really hope so as it will annoy all the racists that voted leave on the basis of not wanting Polish people living next door.

[anonymous-user]

I mentioned I think Brexit won't happen. I still believe it's dead now.

But
Just play along with me for a few minutes.
I hear this talk of a general election and that then if the tories won they could get on with leaving
Now personally I think it's possible that the Conservatives could win it but with a tiny majority
But
A tiny majority or double figures why would that deliver Brexit ? What's to say that his new batch (presumably new to replace those ousted) vote for it. What's to stop some voting no or abstaining

My point is that I simply don't believe that there is a real WILL in the political world to deliver Brexit
That's why I think it's dead in the water

[anonymous-user]

OH another thing I have learned is that the fixed term parliament act is a complete waste of time and has as many pitfalls as the system in place before it. It is just as manipulative as that which it replaced

[MC Bodge]

CrgT16 said:

I have learnt:
4 - the remainers are much more vocal and violent than the Brexiteers

How did you come to that conclusion?

I've learned that good ideas seldom take 3.5 years, billions of pounds and an angrily divided nation to fail to achieve.

[Bill]

techiedave said:

My point is that I simply don't believe that there is a real WILL in the political world to deliver Brexit

To be fair, if you'd been told you to do something massively complicated and time consuming, that will put the country in a worse position and ps off a significant portion the electorate you'd be a bit grumpy too.

[PositronicRay]

Bill said:

techiedave said:

My point is that I simply don't believe that there is a real WILL in the political world to deliver Brexit

To be fair, if you'd been told you to do something massively complicated and time consuming, that will put the country in a worse position and ps off a significant portion the electorate you'd be a bit grumpy too.

You forgot expensive and shedding donors like an German shepard in spring.

[toon10]

Max_Torque said:

fridaypassion said:

I'm genuinely interested how they are affected now, today.

What exactly do you think our politicians have been doing for the last 3 years? The answer, is Brexit. It's cost something like £900 million already in direct costs, and the total bill is estimated to be at least £2 billion. And whilst our politicians are wrestling with the impossibility of Brexit they aren't doing their a job on the rest if the issues they should be dealing with. The NHS, crime, Economy, transport, infrastructure, climate change, pretty much everything else has been ignored these last few years.

Exactly. While we position ourselves to be worse off after Brexit, we're spending all our time and energy on trying to solve the impossible puzzle which means we're neglecting everything else.

Bill said:

To be fair, if you'd been told you to do something massively complicated and time consuming, that will put the country in a worse position and ps off a significant portion the electorate you'd be a bit grumpy too.

Yup, all entirely predictable too. We have literally brought this on ourselves while the world watches on in amazement.

[amusingduck]

Bill said:

techiedave said:

My point is that I simply don't believe that there is a real WILL in the political world to deliver Brexit

To be fair, if you'd been told you to do something massively complicated and time consuming, that will put the country in a worse position and ps off a significant portion the electorate you'd be a bit grumpy too.

It's a reasonable argument for the 50-odd that voted against the 2016 referendum, but it doesn't hold for the rest of the 500+ that voted for it.

Those 500 weren't 'told', they asked.

[JagLover]

techiedave said:

I mentioned I think Brexit won't happen. I still believe it's dead now.

But
Just play along with me for a few minutes.
I hear this talk of a general election and that then if the tories won they could get on with leaving
Now personally I think it's possible that the Conservatives could win it but with a tiny majority
But
A tiny majority or double figures why would that deliver Brexit ? What's to say that his new batch (presumably new to replace those ousted) vote for it. What's to stop some voting no or abstaining

Nothing whatsoever to stop that happening. Over two dozen Tory MPs have already left the party over Brexit, but no doubt there are a few still waiting until they can strike when the time is right.

[ChevyChase77]

That MP's can sit in the HoC and mess about on their phones (Lammy yesterday) - Some say he nodded off.

[selym]

Going back to the original question, one thing I've learnt about Brexit (well, about people) is that the population seem to thrive on living in a divided nation. I can't see a time when we won't all be judged primarily on how we voted in a referendum, decades previous.

People can fk off as far as I'm concerned.

[PositronicRay]

selym said:

Going back to the original question, one thing I've learnt about Brexit (well, about people) is that the population seem to thrive on living in a divided nation. I can't see a time when we won't all be judged primarily on how we voted in a referendum, decades previous.

People can fk off as far as I'm concerned.

It gives us all something to focus our hate on.

[Mrr T]

Coolbanana said:

Here in Portugal if you don't qualify for the Golden Visa they give you 5 years Residency in a matter of...oooo, 5-6 minutes. After that you apply for Citizenship having met the 5 year criteria.

Not sure how any UK Citizen - like myself - could be negatively affected by Brexit unless they rely upon the Pound for their income; as many do, granted but it could go the other way again eventually.

Not met a local UK Citizen yet who is terribly bothered. All seem to agree Brexit is dumb but that's about it. I'm sure some I haven't met support it though.

Not everyone has 500K to spend on property.

It may only take a few minutes to apply for Portuguese citizenship you first have to pass a language test. While I believe if you leave in a country you should speak the language not everyone does.

It's different in most countries but I know UK citizens living in Spain do not want to take citizenship.

In the UK getting settled status is not easy for everyone even if you have lived in the UK for many years.