Brexit, what have you learnt

[TTwiggy]

P-Jay said:

Has anyone got a private opinion on Brexit? ha ha.

A complex question needs a complex answer.

If it was another 'Remain' or 'Leave' vote I'd vote remain. I don't want my vote for a better economic relationship with the EU to be used to justify a Far Right or indeed Far Left idealistic crusade and I don't trust Westminster not to fk it all up again.

I'm sure there's a deal to be made that both the UK and the EU could live with that would be beneficial to us both. May's deal wasn't it, Johnson's deal doesn't seem to be it and Lord only knows what Corbyn's would look like, but if that deal was on the table, and I was reassured the nutters weren't going to a take mile with it again, I'd vote for it.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Johnnytheboy]

I've also learned that both sides think those that voted the other way only opted to do so in the last few weeks before the referendum, in either case due to lies told to them.

[anonymous-user]

The EU are terrified of the prospect of us leaving.

[blueg33]

That the EU are not terrified of us leaving

[100SRV]

Far Cough said:

That we could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

Honestly makes me wonder how d-day was organised in a time of telephones and typewriters.

[Cantaloupe]

blueg33 said:

That the EU are not terrified of us leaving

Of course they are, we are a major EU player, not like pipsqueak states like Ireland and Latvia,

If we successfully leave and prosper outwith the EU other big knob states will follow.

[toon10]

Cantaloupe said:

Of course they are, we are a major EU player, not like pipsqueak states like Ireland and Latvia,

If we successfully leave and prosper outwith the EU other big knob states will follow.

I'm not so sure the EU is worried or thinks that the UK will "successfully" leave or prosper to be honest.

[SpeckledJim]

100SRV said:

Far Cough said:

That we could not organise a piss up in a brewery.

Honestly makes me wonder how d-day was organised in a time of telephones and typewriters.

Because that was done under intense time pressure.

We gave this three years, which is too much time. It allows space for devious bullst and mendacious meanders.

If A50 had been three months, we'd have gone straight to the stage we're in now, without all the false starts, dead-ends, alternative facts, mis-briefings and intrigues.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

V10leptoquark said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

... there's a range of opinions on how we should leave.
...

This is a narrative that came about shortly after the referendum result, to further divide and frustrate the issue.
The referendum was a binary choice - the people voted to either leave or stay. They were not asked "how do you wish to stay" or "how do you wish to leave". They simply voted to leave.

That doesn't mean they never had an opinion on how we should leave. Or didn't vote leave in accordance with the Leave campaign's assertion of a great deal that was waiting for us.

And again, you say "the people voted leave". 16.1 million voted stay, and millions didn't vote at all.

If 100 people going on a group holiday voted 52/48 to go abroad as opposed to holiday in the UK, then the group should go abroad. France maybe, or Holland. Maybe Spain. 52/48 is a pretty soft abroad vote. a 52/48 vote would not be a mandate for going on a holiday trekking thru the jungles of Borneo for 6 months, living off berries. Which in Brexit terms, exactly what this useless PM seems to be leading us towards.

[anonymous-user]

digimeistter said:

The EU are terrified of the prospect of us leaving.

That Dig is one of the funniest blokes on PH.

[Jinx]

P-Jay said:

Mostly that it's a con.

I voted Leave, I was told we'd never leave the Single Market, because that would be stupid, we'd never lose freedom of movement because that would be stupid, but we'd stop being involved in the European Parliament which seemed a blessed relief and we'd no longer pay to be a member.

But, my Mate, who's a 'little' right of centre to say the least was told we'd stop freedom of movement as a minimum, which means we'd lose the Single Market, which would mean a another nasty recession like the last one, he doesn't care because it's all bks anyway and we need to toughen up a bit.

The bloody Socialists were promised the same thing, they want a closed shop economy so we can all earn £50 a week making plastic crap for the Chinese, well in between praising Leader.

I always knew Farage was a shyster, but he's just so much hot air, but I trusted the official Leave Campaign, but they just promised all things to all people to get a result and now they can't deliver.

Worse still, we could be out by now, but JRM and his cronies blocked it.

We're never going to leave, just spend years arguing about it until someone finally admits it's not possible to please all the people all the time.

Didn't you read the helpful leaflet posted through every household's door at PM's Camerons request (at a cost to taxpayers of approx £9 Million). Leaving the single market and customs union were mentioned in there?
The official leave campaign (Vote leave) was, according to Nigel Farage in an interview in May 2016, led by "Cretins" so perhaps even as a shyster he had the measure of the official leave campaign

[P-Jay]

Jinx said:

Didn't you read the helpful leaflet posted through every household's door at PM's Camerons request (at a cost to taxpayers of approx £9 Million). Leaving the single market and customs union were mentioned in there?
The official leave campaign (Vote leave) was, according to Nigel Farage in an interview in May 2016, led by "Cretins" so perhaps even as a shyster he had the measure of the official leave campaign

This one?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

I did, amongst other things it said:

"No other country has
managed to secure
significant access to the
Single Market, without
having to:
• follow EU rules over which
they have no real say
• pay into the EU
• accept EU citizens living
and working in their country"

And Vote Leave said we wouldn't be leaving the Single Market, which meant a very 'Soft Brexit' we'd pay a members fee, which we'd get back many times over by virtue of trade, we'd no longer be involved with the EU Parliament which would be fine as we're really not now with Farage only dropping in now and again to drop a few sound bites.

Despite what some Hardline Remainers say, we'd still have a say in the EU in the same way any trading partner would have, but only in terms of trade, what they did within the EU was up them.

We'd pay for the bit we wanted, trade, but nothing else.

Anyway, that's what I was promised, others were promised different things, which is why I'd never vote against the status quo again with such a vague question, you can't trust Politicians not to take the piss.

[EmilA]

People who I thought were friends turned out to be quite racist and used Brexit to really reveal their true view on a few topics

[anonymous-user]

Well to be serious

1. The Conservatives managed to hold a scaled down but otherwise reasonable conference whilst parliament was in progress. Me thinks politicians of all parties can do the same in future

[ChevyChase77]

EmilA said:

People who I thought were friends turned out to be quite racist and used Brexit to really reveal their true view on a few topics

Perhaps some context would help here.

I've seen people call others racist purely and simply because they want immigration controlled/better managed.

[SpeckledJim]

ChevyChase77 said:

EmilA said:

People who I thought were friends turned out to be quite racist and used Brexit to really reveal their true view on a few topics

Perhaps some context would help here.

I've seen people call others racist purely and simply because they want immigration controlled/better managed.

If you want to control and limit immigration of mainly white European people into the UK you're a racist.

If you want to control and limit immigration of mainly black people from Africa, you're a faithful supporter of the EU.

[JagLover]

techiedave said:

Well to be serious

1. The Conservatives managed to hold a scaled down but otherwise reasonable conference whilst parliament was in progress. Me thinks politicians of all parties can do the same in future

For the point of view of the TV cameras sure. But I would have thought (never having attended one though) that the point of a conference is also for the MPs to mingle with ordinary party members. They are divorced enough from the rest of the country as it is.

[BOR]

1.Surprised how courageous some of our politicians can be in the face of death threats and, er, actual death.

2.Very surprised how many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back.

[Murph7355]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

That doesn't mean they never had an opinion on how we should leave. Or didn't vote leave in accordance with the Leave campaign's assertion of a great deal that was waiting for us.

And again, you say "the people voted leave". 16.1 million voted stay, and millions didn't vote at all.

If 100 people going on a group holiday voted 52/48 to go abroad as opposed to holiday in the UK, then the group should go abroad. France maybe, or Holland. Maybe Spain. 52/48 is a pretty soft abroad vote. a 52/48 vote would not be a mandate for going on a holiday trekking thru the jungles of Borneo for 6 months, living off berries. Which in Brexit terms, exactly what this useless PM seems to be leading us towards.

To the thread title...

I've learnt that after 3yrs nobody has been able to come up with a good Brexit analogy.

[Murph7355]

BOR said:

...
2.Very surprised how many millions of english people really, really do not like foreigners living in the UK and would like to send them all back.

Evidence of this?

Or are you one of those who cannot understand the difference between controlled immigration (something the rest of the world does, and even the EU where it suits) and racism?