The end of the Union, who'll go first?

[B210bandit]

Budflicker said:

I really don't believe that many people outside of Ireland either North or South really care too much whether or not Ireland is reunited or not.

Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 22 October 21:23

They do. They sure as hell do. Millions do. You do appreciate the size of the Irish diaspora?

[Johnnytheboy]

ArmaghMan said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Dear heavens, this is painful.

UK leaves EU.

You with me so far?

UK and EU form trade agreement.

UK is trading with rest of world on (perhaps only slightly) different terms to the EU as a result.

Northern Ireland is in the slightly Schrodinger-esque situation of being partially in both the EU and UK trade regimes.

If you were a global company wanting to set up a European HQ, would you set it up in Southern or Northern Ireland?

c

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is a rhetorical question

It wasn't multiple choice, that's for sure!

[Budflicker]

B210bandit said:

They do. They sure as hell do. Millions do. You do appreciate the size of the Irish diaspora?

Yes I will concede your point, I should of course have caveat my point to accept that people of Irish heritage would of course be interested in the situation. I expect however most of them would look forward to a United Eire rather than being overly concerned about the demise of the union.

I think how quiet this thread is goes to show that not too many feel particularly passionate about maintaining the Union.

Coolbanna excluded of course, though I suspect he had a few too many when going on his mini rant.

[The Mad Monk]

B210bandit said:

Budflicker said:

I really don't believe that many people outside of Ireland either North or South really care too much whether or not Ireland is reunited or not.

Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 22 October 21:23

They do. They sure as hell do. Millions do. You do appreciate the size of the Irish diaspora?

Oh millions do. Oh yes. Of that, I think there is little doubt.

However, I suggest many millions more than your millions could not care less. Our fervent wish is for this North/South thing to shut up and go away. We just want the quiet life.

Edited by The Mad Monk on Thursday 24th October 08:17

[slow_poke]

The Mad Monk said:

B210bandit said:

Budflicker said:

I really don't believe that many people outside of Ireland either North or South really care too much whether or not Ireland is reunited or not.

Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 22 October 21:23

They do. They sure as hell do. Millions do. You do appreciate the size of the Irish diaspora?

Oh millions do. Oh yes. Oh that, I think there is little doubt.

However, I suggest many millions more than your millions could not care less. Our fervent wish is for this North/South thing to shut up and go away. We just want the quiet life.

Well then, the simple solution to that is for you to go away. Leave. Depart. Feck off. Stick to your own island and keep your beak out of the Irish island.
(You of course not being you personally Bud, more of a generic "You British")
I don't think it'll ever just shut up. At least, not for 3 or 4 generations past reunification. Who knows, maybe even Brexit will be sorted out by then too.

[The Mad Monk]

slow_poke said:

Well then, the simple solution to that is for you to go away. Leave. Depart. Feck off. Stick to your own island and keep your beak out of the Irish island.
(You of course not being you personally Bud, more of a generic "You British")
I don't think it'll ever just shut up. At least, not for 3 or 4 generations past reunification. Who knows, maybe even Brexit will be sorted out by then too.

To assure you on a personal level, my beak could not be more out of Ireland than it is already.

So whose fault is it? (It must be someone's fault, surely?)

The Protestants, the Catholics, the Unionists, the Republicans, mine?

I blame Lloyd George. No, I am not joking. If he had the political courage to unite Ireland in the 1920s, this would have been done with a long time ago.

[slow_poke]

The Mad Monk said:

slow_poke said:

Well then, the simple solution to that is for you to go away. Leave. Depart. Feck off. Stick to your own island and keep your beak out of the Irish island.
(You of course not being you personally Bud, more of a generic "You British")
I don't think it'll ever just shut up. At least, not for 3 or 4 generations past reunification. Who knows, maybe even Brexit will be sorted out by then too.

To assure you on a personal level, my beak could not be more out of Ireland than it is already.

So whose fault is it? (It must be someone's fault, surely?)

The Protestants, the Catholics, the Unionists, the Republicans, mine?

I blame Lloyd George. No, I am not joking. If he had the political courage to unite Ireland in the 1920s, this would have been done with a long time ago.

Twenties was a bit late - Ireland was an armed camp by then. Had he faced everybody down in 1912 and delivered Home Rule things could have turned out very differently.

[Halb]

Gladstone was a singular leader, but the commons was filled with numpties.(like now?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Irelan...
and then the numpties in the lords blocked it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Irelan...

[davidball]

Northern Irish politicians maintain that NI should be treated the same as the rest of the UK. After Brexit there should be border checks between EU countries and the UK. So there should be checks on the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

If NI does not want border checks then leave the UK and join the RoI, assuming the RoI would want NI. Given the childish bickering that went on in the NI Assembly I suspect not.

Given the fact that Boris does not think Scotland is as important as NI if I were Scottish I would want to leave the UK (and its spineless MPs) asap.

Scotland will probably leave the UK first and the UK will be a poorer place for it.

[Borghetto]

slow_poke said:

Well then, the simple solution to that is for you to go away. Leave. Depart. Feck off. Stick to your own island and keep your beak out of the Irish island.
(You of course not being you personally Bud, more of a generic "You British")
I don't think it'll ever just shut up. At least, not for 3 or 4 generations past reunification. Who knows, maybe even Brexit will be sorted out by then too.

Pray tell all us British, how this United Ireland is going to create a harmonious future with around 1 million very pissed off unionists.

[Halb]

I think the number is a lot less than 1 million. Looking at the latest complete census (not recent polls), the number of British only was 39.9% of the 2011 census.

[Borghetto]

Halb said:

I think the number is a lot less than 1 million. Looking at the latest complete census (not recent polls), the number of British only was 39.9% of the 2011 census.

Of a population of 1.8 million, that's 700,000 plus. I doubt ROI have pockets deep enough to keep a lid on things, once the UK money tree stops shaking.

[nicanary]

Arlene Foster is said to have had discussions last week with leading members of the UDA, concerning Brexit possibilities. Does this really help things?

[slow_poke]

Borghetto said:

slow_poke said:

Well then, the simple solution to that is for you to go away. Leave. Depart. Feck off. Stick to your own island and keep your beak out of the Irish island.
(You of course not being you personally Bud, more of a generic "You British")
I don't think it'll ever just shut up. At least, not for 3 or 4 generations past reunification. Who knows, maybe even Brexit will be sorted out by then too.

Pray tell all us British, how this United Ireland is going to create a harmonious future with around 1 million very pissed off unionists.

You assume the Unionists will be very pissed off. I don't.

No doubt the Loyalists will be rather narked about it all, but I foresee a very substantial number of Unionists accepting that the Majority has voted in favour of joining the Republic. They may not particularly like it, but they're mature enough to accept a majority vote, grin, bear it and get on with making the best of it.

[slow_poke]

nicanary said:

Arlene Foster is said to have had discussions last week with leading members of the UDA, concerning Brexit possibilities. Does this really help things?

It does if she's trying to manage their expectations and defuse/head off rising tensions.

We'll see how far the apple has fallen from the tree.

[nicanary]

Borghetto said:

Halb said:

I think the number is a lot less than 1 million. Looking at the latest complete census (not recent polls), the number of British only was 39.9% of the 2011 census.

Of a population of 1.8 million, that's 700,000 plus. I doubt ROI have pockets deep enough to keep a lid on things, once the UK money tree stops shaking.

Probably about 150/200k Loyalists then. The Republic are going to have to dig deep into their pockets (or at least the EU will) to cover the social costs and double the size of their security forces. They won't be happy bunnies.

[Borghetto]

nicanary said:

Probably about 150/200k Loyalists then. The Republic are going to have to dig deep into their pockets (or at least the EU will) to cover the social costs and double the size of their security forces. They won't be happy bunnies.

Wikipedia states NI workers in the public sector as 30%. Is it ikely that ROI or EU will create similar jobs for all these people? Bear in mind they will be competing for funds with a much poorer eastern europe and eu coffers will be severely depleted by the loss of UK. Of course by then Scotland will have the begging bowl out too.

[nicanary]

Borghetto said:

nicanary said:

Probably about 150/200k Loyalists then. The Republic are going to have to dig deep into their pockets (or at least the EU will) to cover the social costs and double the size of their security forces. They won't be happy bunnies.

Wikipedia states NI workers in the public sector as 30%. Is it ikely that ROI or EU will create similar jobs for all these people? Bear in mind they will be competing for funds with a much poorer eastern europe and eu coffers will be severely depleted by the loss of UK. Of course by then Scotland will have the begging bowl out too.

You make a good point. The economy in NI is supported by a civil service which is the largest per capita in the UK, and of course there are all the small and large companies which are supplied with work by that organisation. That would all come to a grinding halt.

I'm amused that the SNP assume they will automatically be accepted by the EU. I suspect the EU will tell them come back in 10 years and we'll think about it.

[slow_poke]

Why do you suspect that? I suspect the opposite - Scotland would be fast-tracked back into the EU, to isolate and ring-fence England/Wales outside it.

[SpeckledJim]

slow_poke said:

Why do you suspect that? I suspect the opposite - Scotland would be fast-tracked back into the EU, to isolate and ring-fence England/Wales outside it.

Me too. The EU is expansionist and their criteria for entry are both low and flexible. There are plenty of other countries allowed to join from positions far 'behind' Scotland.

I don't think overall it would be a good thing for Scotland, especially if excluded from rUK joining, for example, NAFTA, but I reckon they'd let Scotland in. Large administrative hurdles accepted.