How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

[Tuna]

DeepEnd said:

False.

There will be more red tape under Johnson’s deal.

You heard it here first. Invest in red tape factories.

[Robertj21a]

DeepEnd said:

Interesting spin but - in summary - still more red tape overall than before.

To say there will be less is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

How do you know if the details haven't been determined ?

You're beginning to sound a bit like Diane Abbott !!

[DeepEnd]

Tuna said:

DeepEnd said:

False.

There will be more red tape under Johnson’s deal.

You heard it here first. Invest in red tape factories.

It’s all a joke isn’t it. Only it isn’t.

Have you seen the C4 report on the Brexit Party Tuna?

Is that a joke too? You seem to have stopped bragging about your donations on the Nigel thread.

[zombeh]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Just because you think it's easy doesn't mean the NI small business will.

I never cease to be amased how utterly stupid some business owners are ...

I could be missing something that makes this mega complicated but for ~90% of these businesses we're essentially talking about how hard it is to look up a tariff code and write it and the weight in a box on a form?

If everything you sell is completely unique then that could well be a pain in the arse but how many businesses sell one of everything once?

[gooner1]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Sway said:

What's really being missed, is that nothing new is needed for a "customs declaration" than is needed to load a consignment onto a ferry or plane...

As someone very familiar with the rules, and processes, over multiple jurisdictions - 98% being unable to cope is utter bullst.

We handle over 15k declarations, across multiple jurisdictions - and covering restricted commodities shipped under AEO approvals/processes. Two staff, part time.

If it takes a multinational manufacturing business turning over nearly a billion needs fewer than two full time staff (and shipping staggeringly complex stuff like pressure vessels/hi capacity batteries/restricted hardware) what possible mechanism is there for such difficulties for SMEs?

Just because you think it's easy doesn't mean the NI small business will.

I never cease to be amased how utterly stupid some business owners are ...

.



Some are so stupid as to forget or deny what business they are or were involved in....

[Tuna]

DeepEnd said:

It’s all a joke isn’t it. Only it isn’t.

Some of us are funnier than others. Lost your sense of humour?

DeepEnd said:

Have you seen the C4 report on the Brexit Party Tuna?

Is that a joke too? You seem to have stopped bragging about your donations on the Nigel thread.

First question: No I haven't, they are irrelevant.

Second question: You make it funny. I never bragged, I made a statement that your behaviour drove support for groups like the Brexit party, and demonstrated that by donating every time you said something ridiculous enough to goad me into responding to your bile. You didn't make the connection then, and it seems you still don't understand the connection now.

[DeepEnd]

Tuna said:

First question: No I haven't, they are irrelevant.

Second question: You make it funny. I never bragged, I made a statement that your behaviour drove support for groups like the Brexit party, and demonstrated that by donating every time you said something ridiculous enough to goad me into responding to your bile. You didn't make the connection then, and it seems you still don't understand the connection now.

So you gave your money to what many said were a shady outfit that had not changed their spots as a sort of tantrum - indeed as a tantrum specifically about them being labelled the racists they clearly now have proven to be. Why did you pay money and defend a con that you now claim are irrelevant.

You should watch the piece, it’s great journalism. So unfair exposing the racists by dressing as fellow racists.

Are you “going to see what the reform party promise” before deciding whether you can take a view on Nigel’s next con trick?

[Tuna]

You haven't learned a single thing, have you?

[DeepEnd]

Tuna said:

You haven't learned a single thing, have you?

I’ve learned lots since you bragged about donating to the Brexit Party.

You don’t seem to want to discuss whether you still support them - or perhaps whether you will give the reform party a chance.

I’m interested in learning whether you think it was a mistake to support what Nigel did with the Brexit Party, or whether you stand by funding him and his carefully chosen representatives.

[Digga]

DeepEnd said:

I’m interested in learning whether you think it was a mistake to support what Nigel did with the Brexit Party, or whether you stand by funding him and his carefully chosen representatives.

Brexit party - Farage more so - were merely a symptom of the lack of engagement from the main political parties on issues which (very clearly, given the vote they got) were very close to the concerns of the broader population. People voted for the party. They agreed with much of the overall stance, but also they were against the stasis of the main parties, which were clearly not noticing, not listening to, or not reacting to the concerns of constituents.

However, TBP were, really, merely agents for change. They did not represent a fundamental shift in public opinion, rather they served as a useful vehicle to correct the direction of the main parties.

What was 'right' before is not necessarily always right. I realise, for dogmatic "vote reds" that concept is as alien as astrophysics to a flat-earther.

[Robertj21a]

Digga said:

DeepEnd said:

I’m interested in learning whether you think it was a mistake to support what Nigel did with the Brexit Party, or whether you stand by funding him and his carefully chosen representatives.

Brexit party - Farage more so - were merely a symptom of the lack of engagement from the main political parties on issues which (very clearly, given the vote they got) were very close to the concerns of the broader population. People voted for the party. They agreed with much of the overall stance, but also they were against the stasis of the main parties, which were clearly not noticing, not listening to, or not reacting to the concerns of constituents.

However, TBP were, really, merely agents for change. They did not represent a fundamental shift in public opinion, rather they served as a useful vehicle to correct the direction of the main parties.

What was 'right' before is not necessarily always right. I realise, for dogmatic "vote reds" that concept is as alien as astrophysics to a flat-earther.

Good, sensible, post.

[Tuna]

Robertj21a said:

Good, sensible, post.

Glad someone gets it.

Farage had a chance earlier this year to generate serious change (as did the Independent Party, and for that matter the LibDems). They have all - without exception - dropped the ball. That's fine by me, I won't be voting for any of them.

Does that mean we shouldn't support people who propose change? Of course not.

[anonymous-user]

Finally, in answer to the OP, much better now

[acer12]

digimeistter said:

Finally, in answer to the OP, much better now

Please enlighten how election results change eu negotiations?

Is it not the case that the Oct deal will be passed by the house uncharged in January, so eu negotiations are effectively done (ie no new deal).

To be honest I think the EU are as sick of Brexit as we are, they just want us gone at this stage so they will be happy with the result.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

acer12 said:

Please enlighten how election results change eu negotiations?

Is it not the case that the Oct deal will be passed by the house uncharged in January, so eu negotiations are effectively done (ie no new deal).

To be honest I think the EU are as sick of Brexit as we are, they just want us gone at this stage so they will be happy with the result.

We still have the fun and games leading up to the 31/12/2020 transition deadline to look forward to.

[wc98]

acer12 said:

Please enlighten how election results change eu negotiations?

Is it not the case that the Oct deal will be passed by the house uncharged in January, so eu negotiations are effectively done (ie no new deal).

To be honest I think the EU are as sick of Brexit as we are, they just want us gone at this stage so they will be happy with the result.

the "oct deal" is nowhere near the final deal, it's just the groundwork for the future negotiations. i doubt the final deal will be sorted within one parliamentary term, but they should certainly go a fair bit better without a uk parliament that can block the government on a whim .

[Burwood]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

acer12 said:

Please enlighten how election results change eu negotiations?

Is it not the case that the Oct deal will be passed by the house uncharged in January, so eu negotiations are effectively done (ie no new deal).

To be honest I think the EU are as sick of Brexit as we are, they just want us gone at this stage so they will be happy with the result.

We still have the fun and games leading up to the 31/12/2020 transition deadline to look forward to.

The fun and games was the uncertainty caused by Labour blocking anything that moved and they have been duly punished. Now it's solely a government hurdle and theirs to push through as they see fit. I could care less what they agree now. We are leaving good deal or bad deal with a proper and unstoppable mandate. Given German manufacturing it would seem prudent to strike a deal but I'm so over speculating.

[Digga]

Burwood said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

acer12 said:

Please enlighten how election results change eu negotiations?

Is it not the case that the Oct deal will be passed by the house uncharged in January, so eu negotiations are effectively done (ie no new deal).

To be honest I think the EU are as sick of Brexit as we are, they just want us gone at this stage so they will be happy with the result.

We still have the fun and games leading up to the 31/12/2020 transition deadline to look forward to.

The fun and games was the uncertainty caused by Labour blocking anything that moved and they have been duly punished. Now it's solely a government hurdle and theirs to push through as they see fit. I could care less what they agree now. We are leaving good deal or bad deal with a proper and unstoppable mandate. Given German manufacturing it would seem prudent to strike a deal but I'm so over speculating.

Boris has an enormously robust mandate, both for government and for Brexit. It is a powerful situation to be bargaining from.

I hope the economy is now boosted, in pretty short order, by the spending and investment promised. There has never been a better time for it, in terms of the need (for hospitals, schools, roads and railways) and also the cost to borrow.

[Tuna]

Digga said:

Boris has an enormously robust mandate, both for government and for Brexit. It is a powerful situation to be bargaining from..

Indeed. Previously there was strong incentive for the EU to drag things out in the belief the UK would 'see sense' and the pro-Brexit government of the day would be replaced or neutralised. This election result significantly changes that position.

Of course, it's certainly possible to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and the last few years don't bode well for our ability to negotiate - but for the moment this removes some serious obstructions to good faith negotiation.

[Digga]

Tuna said:

Digga said:

Boris has an enormously robust mandate, both for government and for Brexit. It is a powerful situation to be bargaining from..

Indeed. Previously there was strong incentive for the EU to drag things out in the belief the UK would 'see sense' and the pro-Brexit government of the day would be replaced or neutralised. This election result significantly changes that position.

Of course, it's certainly possible to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and the last few years don't bode well for our ability to negotiate - but for the moment this removes some serious obstructions to good faith negotiation.

My hope is, perhaps, that we are now at a point (I had hoped we were already there) that the HoC can approach this as a matter of national interest, on a cross party basis, in order to best achieve a successful result.

I realise that does also require Remainers to now get on board or shut up.