How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

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Earthdweller

13,423 posts

125 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Dont like rolls said:
BINGO

Cash is not the only way to care, too often cash is not the care that is missing.
It is that twisted thought process that is the source of massive upset to those that need it, crave it, deeply miss it and are to proud to admit it deeply upsets them when (way way to often) it is not given.
When my father passed away my mother was left alone, she fell and broke her hip twice and was put in a nursing home by the NHS for rehab

It was horrific .. once we got her out after they nearly killed ( a whole other thread ) she came to live with us
She’s 83 and will stay with us hopefully till the end. If she does need dementia care or similar we might have to go down that route

But at the moment multi generational living is working for us

She loves the kids, they love ( tolerate ) her

Yes it can be a pain at time’s but it works

Not everyone abandons their family

smile

Murph7355

37,646 posts

255 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Stay in Bed Instead said:
It's not a line.

It's an opinion based on over 40 years of observation.

biggrin
The back of your eyelids are not the best viewpoint.

There's a new world out there sibi. Get involved biggrin

YankeePorker

4,763 posts

240 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
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crankedup said:
This is one of the Social responsibility areas where the French lead the U.K. Young French do not see their elders as liabilities, more as ‘givers of wisdom’, they do have great respect and demonstrate that without thinking it over, it’s a perfectly natural reaction to them. Compare that to the attitude so freely admitted to in here and elsewhere.
I don’t know where you get this impression Crankedup. I lived and worked in France for 14 years and in general I found they were even more likely than young Brits to consider the oldies to be “les vieux cons”. And the number of old people abandoned by their family seemed even more marked to me than in Britain. You may recall in 2003 an extra 15 thousand old people died in the Paris heatwave - in many cases the authorities had great difficulties getting the families to show any interest in their deceased relatives.

The country that I have I always understood to venerate the wisdom of the old is Japan, a truly different culture compared to the Europeans.

Murph7355

37,646 posts

255 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
SpeckledJim said:
Mrr T said:
Murph7355 said:
That's the best line you have?

Frankly, good. They have travel insurance. Why the hell should government (ie the taxpayer) pay to fly them home? I appreciate it's "only £xxx,000" but also frankly, I am sick and tired of that bullst excuse for profligate spending.
I doubt travel insurance would cover their position.
I don’t mind the govt shouldering this burden. These unlucky buggers need to be corralled at the moment. The last thing we need is 60 people taking the cheapest flight outta Dodge and spreading out all over the place.
That was my point no airline would carry them. I doubt the local authorities would even allow them to enter an airport.

They are not sick so likely travel insurance does not apply. If they get sick travel insurance will then apply but they maybe to sick to be repatriated.
If they have an enforced stay and are not sick, decent travel insurance will cover their costs (been there, had that).

If they are sick then as you note they get repatriated if needed/possible via travel insurance. (Parents have been there, had that).

As for them coming back on the next Easyjet flight, border control will be checking for flights from problem areas. Granted the checks aren't necessarily that rigorous judging by my recent use of immigration control... But I guess if Doreen and Alf fancy a bit of planes, trains and automobiles to dodge the quarantine then there's not much anyone can do about it proactively...I just hope their families are fine with the risk they would then pose.

Superficial mercy missions aren't required. Bullst virtue signalling is not what govt should be about. It's a virus with a known quarantine period. Toe the line - personal responsibility not to increase the risk (what happens to the flight crews? Hotel staff that we then have to pay for etc).

(Again, yes yes. It's peanuts and I'd hate it if it were me la la. Feel free to send a note to Boris saying you'll gladly foot the whole bill if you so desire smile ).

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
YankeePorker said:
crankedup said:
This is one of the Social responsibility areas where the French lead the U.K. Young French do not see their elders as liabilities, more as ‘givers of wisdom’, they do have great respect and demonstrate that without thinking it over, it’s a perfectly natural reaction to them. Compare that to the attitude so freely admitted to in here and elsewhere.
I don’t know where you get this impression Crankedup. I lived and worked in France for 14 years and in general I found they were even more likely than young Brits to consider the oldies to be “les vieux cons”. And the number of old people abandoned by their family seemed even more marked to me than in Britain. You may recall in 2003 an extra 15 thousand old people died in the Paris heatwave - in many cases the authorities had great difficulties getting the families to show any interest in their deceased relatives.

The country that I have I always understood to venerate the wisdom of the old is Japan, a truly different culture compared to the Europeans.
My experiences are limited to Southern France Regions including Dordogne. Maybe owing to the huge regional variances with its Cities the situation is pronounced. The handing down of vineries through generations, the sharing of properties is common with several generations on the same land. I agree that the City has an entirely different culture, indeed the young French long abandoned
their heritage for the its living style, takes all sorts smile
As for the Japanese, can only agree with you adding Koreans and others to the list of those that still
live ‘by honour’ so to speak.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Lots of froth, but I thought the most interesting element of recent developments was that every EU country has lobbed their own grenade into their negotiating mandate. Will be interesting to see how EU unity goes when the someone points out that no one gives a fk about the Elgin Marbles apart from Greece and maybe that one can be traded away.

As it stands, the EU's mandate leads only to no further agreement doesn't it?
I still maintain that cracks will form in the EU. Beginning with Germany and France then trickling down.

Dont like rolls

3,798 posts

53 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
When my father passed away my mother was left alone, she fell and broke her hip twice and was put in a nursing home by the NHS for rehab

It was horrific .. once we got her out after they nearly killed ( a whole other thread ) she came to live with us
She’s 83 and will stay with us hopefully till the end. If she does need dementia care or similar we might have to go down that route

But at the moment multi generational living is working for us

She loves the kids, they love ( tolerate ) her

Yes it can be a pain at time’s but it works

Not everyone abandons their family

smile
That I have noted, and all power to you as well. I am fully aware of the efforts it takes. You/Your family is to be applauded.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
That's not in the current proposals. I can see you could have seasonal visas for crop work but I suspect it would still be complex. For work as a carer this is not seasonal work.

The problem I see is the motivation of the people doing the work. For this you need to know about UK house prices. Rents plus property taxes are very high. Renting on minimal wage leaves very little money and is not likely to be better than where you come from.

I cannot claim any research other than knowing 6 people who did these jobs, 2 on farms and 4 in care homes. 3 where qualified nurses, 1 had a degree not sure what in. All came to the UK with little saving and looking to get better jobs.

All took the work because they could start immediately. 4 of the jobs came with accommodation, 2 stayed with us. They worked to build up enough money to rent, to improve their English, and look for better paid work. All stayed for as long as they had then moved on. Without this opportunity none would have done the work. Remove the option and the people will not do the work.
I can see that. Some immigrants come here on a work visa. Some are high paying skill jobs. For those that are not, they usually Pool together for rent support and send their wages home if seasonal only. If more permanent, they do as you described. Save up, and find better work. After five years, they put in for citizenship.

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
hutchst said:
Soylent green.

Waste not, want not.
“Soylent Green is people!!!“
biggrin

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
When my father passed away my mother was left alone, she fell and broke her hip twice and was put in a nursing home by the NHS for rehab

It was horrific .. once we got her out after they nearly killed ( a whole other thread ) she came to live with us
She’s 83 and will stay with us hopefully till the end. If she does need dementia care or similar we might have to go down that route

But at the moment multi generational living is working for us

She loves the kids, they love ( tolerate ) her

Yes it can be a pain at time’s but it works

Not everyone abandons their family

smile
Good for you ED. yes

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile
Because if you've got many disparate economies with opposite and opposing problems and solutions all sharing a currency, then the remedial action for one might make the other patient worse, and so on.

Interest rates rock bottom, growth and inflation the same, and the money pump working flat-out just to keep everyone standing still. What else is up the sleeve? Not much...

Earthdweller

13,423 posts

125 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
Good for you ED. yes
Ta and to DLR as well

It’s challenging at times but hey ho smile

Dont like rolls

3,798 posts

53 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
Absolutely this.

It is the Boomers who are dumping mum and dad into the care home.
Spend time with the elderly....EVERY generation does fk all.

(The exceptions are rare.....but admirable as noted)

mike9009

6,917 posts

242 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
Jimbeaux said:
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile
Because if you've got many disparate economies with opposite and opposing problems and solutions all sharing a currency, then the remedial action for one might make the other patient worse, and so on.

Interest rates rock bottom, growth and inflation the same, and the money pump working flat-out just to keep everyone standing still. What else is up the sleeve? Not much...
Your description sounds a bit like the UK now.

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
mike9009 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Jimbeaux said:
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile
Because if you've got many disparate economies with opposite and opposing problems and solutions all sharing a currency, then the remedial action for one might make the other patient worse, and so on.

Interest rates rock bottom, growth and inflation the same, and the money pump working flat-out just to keep everyone standing still. What else is up the sleeve? Not much...
Your description sounds a bit like the UK now.
Agree to a degree, but we don’t have 27 jealous decision-makers clashing oars.

barryrs

4,375 posts

222 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
I’m sure the BOE considers the Bristol Pound fully when setting monetary policy.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
djc206 said:
crankedup said:
Yes, and it’s a shame, and I mean shame, that the younger generations seem to have lost all context of familiy responsibilities.
When you say younger generations you mean the people in their 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s now who have all but abandoned the care of their parents to underpaid Eastern European’s?

It’s certainly not the younger generations who have the spare cash to outsource care of their family members.
Absolutely this.

It is the Boomers who are dumping mum and dad into the care home.
Given a baby boomer was born 1955 which is a rough average from 1946 to 1964, that makes parents around 90 - 95 years of age now. The average age life expectancy is 78 years for males and 80 years females. It seems unlikely that your assertion is correct given the average facts of life.
Nothing new for you of course. Many of the baby boomers themselves are not that far away from life expectancy average, some will have reached that mark already.
The reality is as I pointed out earlier, it is the younger generations that appear, broadly speaking, to be guilty.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
mike9009 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Jimbeaux said:
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile
Because if you've got many disparate economies with opposite and opposing problems and solutions all sharing a currency, then the remedial action for one might make the other patient worse, and so on.

Interest rates rock bottom, growth and inflation the same, and the money pump working flat-out just to keep everyone standing still. What else is up the sleeve? Not much...
Your description sounds a bit like the UK now.
Agree to a degree, but we don’t have 27 jealous decision-makers clashing oars.
More to the point, disparities are alleviated to some extent by people moving around the country, or even commuting from less prosperous areas to more prosperous. Not nearly as easy to do between say, Greece and Germany.

Earthdweller

13,423 posts

125 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
mike9009 said:
SpeckledJim said:
Jimbeaux said:
stongle said:
“ The ability to respond to or de-risk financial events is something the EU via its institutions does not have. We do,”
How is that? Genuine question. smile
Because if you've got many disparate economies with opposite and opposing problems and solutions all sharing a currency, then the remedial action for one might make the other patient worse, and so on.

Interest rates rock bottom, growth and inflation the same, and the money pump working flat-out just to keep everyone standing still. What else is up the sleeve? Not much...
Your description sounds a bit like the UK now.
Agree to a degree, but we don’t have 27 jealous decision-makers clashing oars.
We can already see where it’s going can’t we ?

Britain has one voice .. we’ve said what our position is and already we have France saying No deal unless we have your fish, Spain no deal unless we have your rock, Greece saying no deal unless you give us our rocks back etc

They’ll be like kids in a playground squabbling, I’ll be amazed if they can agree on anything

The U.K. just has to sit back and watch the fireworks

The difference is plain .. for the last three years the EU was convinced Brexit wasn’t going to happen

Now it clearly is, it will be a major stress test for their Union
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