NHS Nurse asks Strangers for Donations
Discussion
Bussolini said:
She is also (i) a single mother, working shifts, living in London and (ii) in a skilled profession of which the UK has a severe shortage.
I wonder how many here live on her income or less, never mind as a single mother working shifts in London.
If she relocated she would lose the london weighting which is probably eaten up by living / commuting, but would transition on the same salary / banding I wonder how many here live on her income or less, never mind as a single mother working shifts in London.
In real terms if she transitioned to a cheaper area, even slightly out of london, she would be better off
Bussolini said:
Sway said:
She's earning 25% more than the median income...
Therefore a significant majority of adult workers in the UK earn less.
She is also (i) a single mother, working shifts, living in London and (ii) in a skilled profession of which the UK has a severe shortage. Therefore a significant majority of adult workers in the UK earn less.
I wonder how many here live on her income or less, never mind as a single mother working shifts in London.
Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
Sten. said:
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
Is that what will have been redacted on the pay slip then under her salary?Sway said:
Not that long ago, I was living on the South Coast, with a chunky commute without public transport options, earning significantly less than median wage - with a non-working (disabled, but ineligible for support) partner and two young kids.
I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.
She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
I suspect those defending her probably earn significantly more than her, this is PH after all.I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.
She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
The notion that there are people out there in similar circumstances who will be lucky to earn half of what she does and don't have nearly £300 a month to spare for a pension but don't feel it necessary to start begging is probably lost on them.
Mothersruin said:
Sten. said:
Oakey said:
Why is she only working a 37.5hr week, is that standard hours for a nurse?
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.Edited by Sten. on Wednesday 23 October 13:42
CambsBill said:
There are so many of this type of article that I was beginning to think that the CSA had been disbanded altogether. Well, it has, but only to be replaced by the Child Maintenance Service so the question remains - why the juddering fk isn't the father paying towards the child?
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7776£2.5 billion is owed to single parents in unpaid CSA. They've decided its no longer worth pursuing the miscreants for payment so they are just writing it off. Easy for a government department to do, but doesn't really help those people (and this nurse may or may not be one of them) who are owed thousands but will now get nothing
JagLover said:
Weren't you the one concerned about a rising deficit?. How is the deficit going to do if we pay nurses enough money to cover all the lifestyle choices this Nurse has made?.
Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
No, I was concerned with pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories. Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
You are again assuming she is in the position she is in due to poor lifestyle choices. What if she was living a comfortable life, had a kid, and then her partner flunked off leaving her a single mother with a kid living in London? Is your suggestion that she should go find herself a nice man with a good wage to look after her? I would suggest she should be able to look after herself.
Yes, gold plated public sector pensions need looked at. However, you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension - you would then criticize her for insufficient savings in retirement.
Oakey said:
Sten. said:
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
Is that what will have been redacted on the pay slip then under her salary?Sway said:
Not that long ago, I was living on the South Coast, with a chunky commute without public transport options, earning significantly less than median wage - with a non-working (disabled, but ineligible for support) partner and two young kids.
I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.
She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
I suspect those defending her probably earn significantly more than her, this is PH after all.I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.
She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
The notion that there are people out there in similar circumstances who will be lucky to earn half of what she does and don't have nearly £300 a month to spare for a pension but don't feel it necessary to start begging is probably lost on them.
https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...
"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Bussolini said:
Jinx said:
Erm she could reduce the contribution and up it again when the child care costs reduce - then not have to ask strangers for money?
Surely the more profound point is that a nurse should be sufficiently well paid that she can contribute to a pension and live somewhere above the breadline? I agree with the sentiment, but as there aren’t thousands out there begging to subsist, I tend to think this particular case is an outlier and for fairly unremarkable reasons.
Like food banks, if she gets another 10k a year through begging and everyone else then does it, it doesn’t necessarily mean nurses need to beg...
boyse7en said:
CambsBill said:
There are so many of this type of article that I was beginning to think that the CSA had been disbanded altogether. Well, it has, but only to be replaced by the Child Maintenance Service so the question remains - why the juddering fk isn't the father paying towards the child?
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7776£2.5 billion is owed to single parents in unpaid CSA. They've decided its no longer worth pursuing the miscreants for payment so they are just writing it off. Easy for a government department to do, but doesn't really help those people (and this nurse may or may not be one of them) who are owed thousands but will now get nothing
andy_s said:
Bussolini said:
Jinx said:
Erm she could reduce the contribution and up it again when the child care costs reduce - then not have to ask strangers for money?
Surely the more profound point is that a nurse should be sufficiently well paid that she can contribute to a pension and live somewhere above the breadline? I agree with the sentiment, but as there aren’t thousands out there begging to subsist, I tend to think this particular case is an outlier and for fairly unremarkable reasons.
Like food banks, if she gets another 10k a year through begging and everyone else then does it, it doesn’t necessarily mean nurses need to beg...
Also, again, I am not saying she should be begging. I'm just saying it shines a spotlight that something isn't working - whether that's our welfare state, or how we pay our nurses. Nursing should not be a job where people can only scrape by doing. It isn't waiting tables or stacking shelves. It is a career, not a job.
Bussolini said:
JagLover said:
Weren't you the one concerned about a rising deficit?. How is the deficit going to do if we pay nurses enough money to cover all the lifestyle choices this Nurse has made?.
Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
No, I was concerned with pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories. Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
You are again assuming she is in the position she is in due to poor lifestyle choices. What if she was living a comfortable life, had a kid, and then her partner flunked off leaving her a single mother with a kid living in London? Is your suggestion that she should go find herself a nice man with a good wage to look after her? I would suggest she should be able to look after herself.
Bussolini said:
Yes, gold plated public sector pensions need looked at. However, you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension - you would then criticize her for insufficient savings in retirement.
A pension is only part of the income you need to live on in retirement. Most people's main preparation for retirement will be to pay off the mortgage. Certainly defined contribution pension pots are going to be small for most people. However the point was more in general that in these threads people declare that such workers are underpaid without factoring in a pension that is worth many £, thousands per annum.
JagLover said:
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
This. Good god. This. Bussolini said:
Again, no support for begging - but it does shine a light on how we treat some of our crucial NHS staff.
https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...
"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Same as a lot of the private sector. https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...
"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
JagLover said:
A pension is only part of the income you need to live on in retirement. Most people's main preparation for retirement will be to pay off the mortgage. Certainly defined contribution pension pots are going to be small for most people.
However the point was more in general that in these threads people declare that such workers are underpaid without factoring in a pension that is worth many £, thousands per annum.
What if she was unmarried but cohabiting? What if the ex partner gambled away all his money and then disappeared into the sunset? Life is not so black and white. However the point was more in general that in these threads people declare that such workers are underpaid without factoring in a pension that is worth many £, thousands per annum.
Oh and she has no chance of buying property in London, so not sure why you think paying off her mortgage is an alternative to a pension.
Bussolini said:
you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension
I disagree. You can't plead poverty and beg strangers for money while contributing 9.3% of your income to your retirement savings pot. Well, you can of course but I certainly wont be putting my hand in my pocket.Sway said:
Same as a lot of the private sector.
Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
Thing is, if the private sector couldn't recruit it would increase salaries. The NHS instead has to spend huge sums of cash on expensive agency nurses rather than paying a proper salary that would attract graduates into nursing. (Alternative, vocational training for nurses rather than a graduate route).Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
vonuber said:
How about we pay nurses in London more.
Or just pay all of them a bit more... along with the police/fire service/paramedics/care workers - I'd sooner the people who provide these essential services (jobs many of us wouldnt/couldnt do) have a livable wage, encouraging more into the professions, than say a phony war or two. Sway said:
Bussolini said:
Again, no support for begging - but it does shine a light on how we treat some of our crucial NHS staff.
https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...
"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Same as a lot of the private sector. https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...
"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
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