NHS Nurse asks Strangers for Donations

NHS Nurse asks Strangers for Donations

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Discussion

Mothersruin

8,573 posts

98 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Sten. said:
Oakey said:
Why is she only working a 37.5hr week, is that standard hours for a nurse?
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
What's 'Bank' work?

menousername

2,106 posts

141 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
She is also (i) a single mother, working shifts, living in London and (ii) in a skilled profession of which the UK has a severe shortage.

I wonder how many here live on her income or less, never mind as a single mother working shifts in London.
If she relocated she would lose the london weighting which is probably eaten up by living / commuting, but would transition on the same salary / banding

In real terms if she transitioned to a cheaper area, even slightly out of london, she would be better off

Sheepshanks

32,519 posts

118 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Mothersruin said:
She is, unless each and every colleague is in exactly the same financial straits, then there's an an overriding issue.
We've had "nurses using food banks" headlines before.

JagLover

42,264 posts

234 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Sway said:
She's earning 25% more than the median income...

Therefore a significant majority of adult workers in the UK earn less.
She is also (i) a single mother, working shifts, living in London and (ii) in a skilled profession of which the UK has a severe shortage.

I wonder how many here live on her income or less, never mind as a single mother working shifts in London.
Weren't you the one concerned about a rising deficit?. How is the deficit going to do if we pay nurses enough money to cover all the lifestyle choices this Nurse has made?.

Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.

It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.

Oakey

27,523 posts

215 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Sten. said:
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
Is that what will have been redacted on the pay slip then under her salary?

Sway said:
Not that long ago, I was living on the South Coast, with a chunky commute without public transport options, earning significantly less than median wage - with a non-working (disabled, but ineligible for support) partner and two young kids.

I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.

She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
I suspect those defending her probably earn significantly more than her, this is PH after all.

The notion that there are people out there in similar circumstances who will be lucky to earn half of what she does and don't have nearly £300 a month to spare for a pension but don't feel it necessary to start begging is probably lost on them.

Sten.

2,184 posts

133 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Mothersruin said:
Sten. said:
Oakey said:
Why is she only working a 37.5hr week, is that standard hours for a nurse?
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
What's 'Bank' work?
I believe it's effectively a zero hours contract separate to your main contract where you can take on extra shifts when they are available. Basically overtime, but on a separate payslip.



Edited by Sten. on Wednesday 23 October 13:42

boyse7en

6,671 posts

164 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
CambsBill said:
There are so many of this type of article that I was beginning to think that the CSA had been disbanded altogether. Well, it has, but only to be replaced by the Child Maintenance Service so the question remains - why the juddering fcensoredk isn't the father paying towards the child?
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7776

£2.5 billion is owed to single parents in unpaid CSA. They've decided its no longer worth pursuing the miscreants for payment so they are just writing it off. Easy for a government department to do, but doesn't really help those people (and this nurse may or may not be one of them) who are owed thousands but will now get nothing

Bussolini

11,574 posts

84 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
Weren't you the one concerned about a rising deficit?. How is the deficit going to do if we pay nurses enough money to cover all the lifestyle choices this Nurse has made?.

Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.

It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
No, I was concerned with pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories.

You are again assuming she is in the position she is in due to poor lifestyle choices. What if she was living a comfortable life, had a kid, and then her partner flunked off leaving her a single mother with a kid living in London? Is your suggestion that she should go find herself a nice man with a good wage to look after her? I would suggest she should be able to look after herself.

Yes, gold plated public sector pensions need looked at. However, you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension - you would then criticize her for insufficient savings in retirement.


Bussolini

11,574 posts

84 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Oakey said:
Sten. said:
Yes, most work plenty of overtime/bank work on top of that though.
Is that what will have been redacted on the pay slip then under her salary?

Sway said:
Not that long ago, I was living on the South Coast, with a chunky commute without public transport options, earning significantly less than median wage - with a non-working (disabled, but ineligible for support) partner and two young kids.

I know several posters on PH personally, who are living in what would be classed by some as poverty - yet aren't asking for handouts.

She has specific circumstances you call out - which actually demonstrate she has immense choice to change the situation. Many more don't...
I suspect those defending her probably earn significantly more than her, this is PH after all.

The notion that there are people out there in similar circumstances who will be lucky to earn half of what she does and don't have nearly £300 a month to spare for a pension but don't feel it necessary to start begging is probably lost on them.
Again, no support for begging - but it does shine a light on how we treat some of our crucial NHS staff.

https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...

"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Jinx said:
Erm she could reduce the contribution and up it again when the child care costs reduce - then not have to ask strangers for money?
Surely the more profound point is that a nurse should be sufficiently well paid that she can contribute to a pension and live somewhere above the breadline?
You forgot ‘+ have kid’ and ‘not claim tax credit etc’.

I agree with the sentiment, but as there aren’t thousands out there begging to subsist, I tend to think this particular case is an outlier and for fairly unremarkable reasons.

Like food banks, if she gets another 10k a year through begging and everyone else then does it, it doesn’t necessarily mean nurses need to beg...

CambsBill

1,909 posts

177 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
boyse7en said:
CambsBill said:
There are so many of this type of article that I was beginning to think that the CSA had been disbanded altogether. Well, it has, but only to be replaced by the Child Maintenance Service so the question remains - why the juddering fcensoredk isn't the father paying towards the child?
https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7776

£2.5 billion is owed to single parents in unpaid CSA. They've decided its no longer worth pursuing the miscreants for payment so they are just writing it off. Easy for a government department to do, but doesn't really help those people (and this nurse may or may not be one of them) who are owed thousands but will now get nothing
Why? AIUI they have the power to take contributions from either employers or from benefits - most miscreants must be on one or the other surely?

Bussolini

11,574 posts

84 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
andy_s said:
Bussolini said:
Jinx said:
Erm she could reduce the contribution and up it again when the child care costs reduce - then not have to ask strangers for money?
Surely the more profound point is that a nurse should be sufficiently well paid that she can contribute to a pension and live somewhere above the breadline?
You forgot ‘+ have kid’ and ‘not claim tax credit etc’.

I agree with the sentiment, but as there aren’t thousands out there begging to subsist, I tend to think this particular case is an outlier and for fairly unremarkable reasons.

Like food banks, if she gets another 10k a year through begging and everyone else then does it, it doesn’t necessarily mean nurses need to beg...
As we said before, we do not know the circumstances that led her to being a single mother living in London. We don't know what she spends her money on. However I can see how £2k take home isn't going to go far in London with her stated costs of £670 rent £600 childcare £579 travel - before food, council tax, etc. etc. etc.. She isn't exactly living lavishly.

Also, again, I am not saying she should be begging. I'm just saying it shines a spotlight that something isn't working - whether that's our welfare state, or how we pay our nurses. Nursing should not be a job where people can only scrape by doing. It isn't waiting tables or stacking shelves. It is a career, not a job.

JagLover

42,264 posts

234 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
JagLover said:
Weren't you the one concerned about a rising deficit?. How is the deficit going to do if we pay nurses enough money to cover all the lifestyle choices this Nurse has made?.

Many people earn less than this, but they have a partner to help cover costs and so live comfortable lives.

It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
No, I was concerned with pointing out the hypocrisy of the Tories.

You are again assuming she is in the position she is in due to poor lifestyle choices. What if she was living a comfortable life, had a kid, and then her partner flunked off leaving her a single mother with a kid living in London? Is your suggestion that she should go find herself a nice man with a good wage to look after her? I would suggest she should be able to look after herself.
We don't know her individual circumstances so shouldn't be too judgemental. But if she was a widow she would have no doubt received a life insurance payout. If she was divorced, and had married someone able to provide for a family, she would be receiving child maintenance. This all smacks of someone making poor life choices to me.

Bussolini said:
Yes, gold plated public sector pensions need looked at. However, you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension - you would then criticize her for insufficient savings in retirement.
A pension is only part of the income you need to live on in retirement. Most people's main preparation for retirement will be to pay off the mortgage. Certainly defined contribution pension pots are going to be small for most people.

However the point was more in general that in these threads people declare that such workers are underpaid without factoring in a pension that is worth many £, thousands per annum.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
It is worth repeating that she is not on the bread line as she has a decent salary and a final salary pension scheme on top. I have often thought the government should offer a different scheme to all such "underpaid public sector workers". An extra £3k per annum, say, in pay and then they only get a defined contribution scheme with an employer 5% contribution.
This. Good god. This.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
Again, no support for begging - but it does shine a light on how we treat some of our crucial NHS staff.

https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...

"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Same as a lot of the private sector.

Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.

Bussolini

11,574 posts

84 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
JagLover said:
A pension is only part of the income you need to live on in retirement. Most people's main preparation for retirement will be to pay off the mortgage. Certainly defined contribution pension pots are going to be small for most people.

However the point was more in general that in these threads people declare that such workers are underpaid without factoring in a pension that is worth many £, thousands per annum.
What if she was unmarried but cohabiting? What if the ex partner gambled away all his money and then disappeared into the sunset? Life is not so black and white.

Oh and she has no chance of buying property in London, so not sure why you think paying off her mortgage is an alternative to a pension.

Sten.

2,184 posts

133 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Bussolini said:
you cannot criticize her for contributing to her pension
I disagree. You can't plead poverty and beg strangers for money while contributing 9.3% of your income to your retirement savings pot. Well, you can of course but I certainly wont be putting my hand in my pocket.


Bussolini

11,574 posts

84 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Sway said:
Same as a lot of the private sector.

Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
Thing is, if the private sector couldn't recruit it would increase salaries. The NHS instead has to spend huge sums of cash on expensive agency nurses rather than paying a proper salary that would attract graduates into nursing. (Alternative, vocational training for nurses rather than a graduate route).

Maxf

8,402 posts

240 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
vonuber said:
How about we pay nurses in London more.
Or just pay all of them a bit more... along with the police/fire service/paramedics/care workers - I'd sooner the people who provide these essential services (jobs many of us wouldnt/couldnt do) have a livable wage, encouraging more into the professions, than say a phony war or two.

Vanden Saab

13,889 posts

73 months

Wednesday 23rd October 2019
quotequote all
Sway said:
Bussolini said:
Again, no support for begging - but it does shine a light on how we treat some of our crucial NHS staff.

https://fullfact.org/economy/pay-rises-how-much-do...

"Taking into account inflation, new starter nurses are now earning around £1,900 less than they might have in 2010. That’s an 8% reduction in pay over eight years."
Same as a lot of the private sector.

Difference being, no guaranteed pay rises annually within band. No staggeringly vast employer with hundreds of routes to progress through bands. Etc.
The trouble with that is that unless you have a specialism that puts you in a higher band then above band 5 you will be spending much of your time doing admin not nursing.