39 bodies found in Lorry : illegals ?

[Flumpo]

AF1 said:

Autonomy said:

Do traffickers prefer refrigerated trailers because they're less likely to be stopped and checked? The logic being if they're cold inside - people won't be inside? And they may look to be 'on' but are not?

I've never thought they were frozen, I believe the airtight - no air theory.

In my experience they get stopped more for some reason. Perhaps I’ve been unlucky but I’ve lost count of the times I’ve seen them pulling fridges and box vans while soft sided vehicles sail by even when I’ve had frozen on.

Are they airtight if the freezer is turned off?

[AF1]

Flumpo said:

Are they airtight if the freezer is turned off?

I’m not entirely sure, I’d suspect not 100% completely air tight due to the way the fridge motor is mounted, small nooks and crannies where wiring is ran in etc but I’d imagine extremely limited air flow especially with a fridge with good seals.

[PurpleTurtle]

Autonomy said:

Do traffickers prefer refrigerated trailers because they're less likely to be stopped and checked? The logic being if they're cold inside - people won't be inside? And they may look to be 'on' but are not?

I've never thought they were frozen, I believe the airtight - no air theory.

No, it’s because the insulated refrigerated containers defeat thermal imaging scanners at the ports, so are obviously favoured by the traffickers as it reduces risk of detection, but of course increases risk of death.

[Digga]

PurpleTurtle said:

Autonomy said:

Do traffickers prefer refrigerated trailers because they're less likely to be stopped and checked? The logic being if they're cold inside - people won't be inside? And they may look to be 'on' but are not?

I've never thought they were frozen, I believe the airtight - no air theory.

No, it’s because the insulated refrigerated containers defeat thermal imaging scanners at the ports, so are obviously favoured by the traffickers as it reduces risk of detection, but of course increases risk of death.

Due diligence and outright dishonesty aside, how the hell is an ordinary truck driver supposed to cope with this?



https://sceptr.net/2019/11/trucker-aangevallen-doo...

This is going on across the other side of the channel every day, with trucks bound for the UK.

[Shakermaker]

Digga said:

Due diligence and outright dishonesty aside, how the hell is an ordinary truck driver supposed to cope with this?



https://sceptr.net/2019/11/trucker-aangevallen-doo...

This is going on across the other side of the channel every day, with trucks bound for the UK.

At the moment, the answer must be "with great difficulty". I can't imagine how challenging that must be.

The apparent matter that the individual driver can be fined/prosecuted in the circumstances where persons have climbed on board their vehicle and attempted to make it to the UK illegally, need to be metered with the fact that the photo above shows what these people are prepared to do to the trucks.

Having sat at Calais and watched officers pull a dozen or so people who'd climbed on board a lorry load of tyres and got themselves in the crevices and within the tyres themselves, the driver had not himself made any apparent effort to alert anyone - he just drove through and lined up with everyone else before being taken aside for the officers to get access to the truck.

Is there anywhere for a driver to essentially surrender themselves to Border Force (either side) if they have their suspicions that people have tried to get on board, whereby those who do make it across are obviously not then free to go around and work in nail salons/car washes etc?

The issue, of course, will be the necessary manpower to do this and the fact that doing so will require considerable extra time for the drivers, and I assume many of them will be on tight deadlines to reach destinations. Such is the price of our just in time manufacturing and industry processes.

However, I've not seen any effort by the UK government to increase the number of border force staff at the seaports or Eurotunnel etc, to deal with this.

Or would this just offer the traffickers/people more incentive to get here and the truckers can be in the clear even if they are "in" on it?

[milkround]

Shakermaker said:

Digga said:

Due diligence and outright dishonesty aside, how the hell is an ordinary truck driver supposed to cope with this?



https://sceptr.net/2019/11/trucker-aangevallen-doo...

This is going on across the other side of the channel every day, with trucks bound for the UK.

At the moment, the answer must be "with great difficulty". I can't imagine how challenging that must be.

The apparent matter that the individual driver can be fined/prosecuted in the circumstances where persons have climbed on board their vehicle and attempted to make it to the UK illegally, need to be metered with the fact that the photo above shows what these people are prepared to do to the trucks.

Having sat at Calais and watched officers pull a dozen or so people who'd climbed on board a lorry load of tyres and got themselves in the crevices and within the tyres themselves, the driver had not himself made any apparent effort to alert anyone - he just drove through and lined up with everyone else before being taken aside for the officers to get access to the truck.

Is there anywhere for a driver to essentially surrender themselves to Border Force (either side) if they have their suspicions that people have tried to get on board, whereby those who do make it across are obviously not then free to go around and work in nail salons/car washes etc?

The issue, of course, will be the necessary manpower to do this and the fact that doing so will require considerable extra time for the drivers, and I assume many of them will be on tight deadlines to reach destinations. Such is the price of our just in time manufacturing and industry processes.

However, I've not seen any effort by the UK government to increase the number of border force staff at the seaports or Eurotunnel etc, to deal with this.

Or would this just offer the traffickers/people more incentive to get here and the truckers can be in the clear even if they are "in" on it?

There are control points which you can drive up to and say you believe you have illegals on before you get to the main customs bit. They will then have a look and say go or no go. The picture is not abnormal. However that in itself has problems... Firstly you might genuinely have no idea (say you have gone for a poo and they have climbed in). And secondly if you do go into a control point and they pull some off... They just let them go. They give them a green light to have another go tomorrow, and then the next day etc. They don't arrest them or do anything to stop the problem.

[Digga]

More in Cambridgeshire today: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7728101/S...

[JuniorD]

It must be a piece of piss to bring counterfeit goods, drugs, weapons, explosives and even crazy ISIS terrorists into the UK. Brexit and its associated instantaneous control over our borders can't come quick enough...

[cossy400]

JuniorD said:

It must be a piece of piss to bring counterfeit goods, drugs, weapons, explosives and even crazy ISIS terrorists into the UK. Brexit and its associated instantaneous control over our borders can't come quick enough...

Getting them all in before Brexit it seems...

[M4cruiser]

Shakermaker said:

Is there anywhere for a driver to essentially surrender themselves to Border Force (either side) if they have their suspicions that people have tried to get on board, whereby those who do make it across are obviously not then free to go around and work in nail salons/car washes etc?

The issue, of course, will be the necessary manpower to do this and the fact that doing so will require considerable extra time for the drivers, and I assume many of them will be on tight deadlines to reach destinations. Such is the price of our just in time manufacturing and industry processes.

However, I've not seen any effort by the UK government to increase the number of border force staff at the seaports or Eurotunnel etc, to deal with this.

I have often thought there should be an "amnesty shed" inside the port of Calais where truckers could go to have their lorry checked with no risk of prosecution. As you say though, the problem is cost and manpower (and space). I guess the UK government doesn't see "prevention" as their problem on the French motorways, the French authorities should be doing this, in an ideal world.

[rscott]

Digga said:

rscott said:

Pretty simple to defeat a weight based check - just have a hidden water tank built into the vehicle. Or even lead weights underneath.

My other half works with Border Force at a British port (part of the post Brexit processing team, so not doing much at the moment!)

She's been shown details of some of the tricks used by smugglers - hidden compartments which are opened using a remote control. In one case it was controlled via Bluetooth!
Containers with false walls, floors,etc.

Yes, It is quite disheartening to see how porous our borders are and also how unscrupulous many people are.

Smuggling aside (which, on so many levels is wrong) the immigration policies need urgent overhaul, as do border controls. However, the notion of absolute control is illusory, even if, outside of the shackles of EU rules, the UK can do better.

The port also handles a lot of non EU shipments - but the majority of finds occur in EU traffic. Presumably people think the borders are far more porous than they actually are.

Her Brexit work, when it finally happens, is mainly processing additional customs related paperwork for all EU shipments - they're expecting that those will need the same manual processing as non EU.

Hence the appointment of a dozen or so at that port alone just to try to minimise the time taken to get the shipments through - even a 2 minute extra delay per lorry is going to have a big impact when there's 150 or so on each ship ..

[JuniorD]

They’ll be reduced to waving everything through. Illegal immigrants will be able to sneak in on open topped double decker buses!

[Ructions]

cossy400 said:

So much speculation going about, like why is there a bounty on Eamons head which is why hes being held in solitary, when nothing has been reported to say Mo has had the same issued to him. (baring in mind they are both charged with the same thing)

Harrison is not being held in solitary or any form of protective custody. He is being held in Cloverhill, a remand prison in Dublin and there are doubts as to wether he will be extradited.

cossy400 said:

Mo pleaded guilty yesterday to the money laundering and something else but wasnt asked to put a plea in for the 39 manslaughter charges.

Mo the grass.

[Lily the Pink]

Ructions said:

Mo the grass.

Very good.

I'm sure that given where these guys are based, and where their families live, they will be receiving all sorts of "advise" as to how they should proceed.

[Digga]

rscott said:

Her Brexit work, when it finally happens, is mainly processing additional customs related paperwork for all EU shipments - they're expecting that those will need the same manual processing as non EU.

I was pondering this and wonder whether Brexit, and amended customs procedures might also help the matter, in that they become the 'excuse' for allowing a more thorough border inspection too?

Not arguing that this will create delays though. That much is clear.

[Ructions]

Christopher Hughes, who is wanted by police in connection with the deaths of 39 people in a lorry in Essex, has lost his heavy goods vehicles (HGV) licence.

Mr Hughes and his brother Ronan were named as suspects exactly one month ago after 39 Vietnamese nationals were found dead in a refrigerated lorry.

At a public inquiry in Belfast, his firm - C Hughes Logistics Ltd - with an address in Armagh, had its licence to operate several vehicles revoked.

Christopher Hughes did not attend.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50605...

[Frank7]

Ructions said:

Christopher Hughes, who is wanted by police in connection with the deaths of 39 people in a lorry in Essex, has lost his heavy goods vehicles (HGV) licence.

Mr Hughes and his brother Ronan were named as suspects exactly one month ago after 39 Vietnamese nationals were found dead in a refrigerated lorry.

At a public inquiry in Belfast, his firm - C Hughes Logistics Ltd - with an address in Armagh, had its licence to operate several vehicles revoked.

Christopher Hughes did not attend.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50605...

From your first line, I assumed that you were saying that he’d lost his HGV driving licence, but from the link it sounds like his HGV operators licence has been revoked, there is a difference.
I may have misunderstood it, don’t take my opinion as gospel.

[cossy400]

Frank7 said:

Ructions said:

Christopher Hughes, who is wanted by police in connection with the deaths of 39 people in a lorry in Essex, has lost his heavy goods vehicles (HGV) licence.

Mr Hughes and his brother Ronan were named as suspects exactly one month ago after 39 Vietnamese nationals were found dead in a refrigerated lorry.

At a public inquiry in Belfast, his firm - C Hughes Logistics Ltd - with an address in Armagh, had its licence to operate several vehicles revoked.

Christopher Hughes did not attend.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50605...

From your first line, I assumed that you were saying that he’d lost his HGV driving licence, but from the link it sounds like his HGV operators licence has been revoked, there is a difference.
I may have misunderstood it, don’t take my opinion as gospel.

Hes lost "one" of his licences is the way i read it. (which was 2016 this article is just over his Operators)

And his operators licence, thus meaning his trucks can no longer run in any EU country.

Which i assume puts some drivers on the dole.

[Glasgowrob]

cossy400 said:

Hes lost "one" of his licences is the way i read it. (which was 2016 this article is just over his Operators)

And his operators licence, thus meaning his trucks can no longer run in any EU country.

Which i assume puts some drivers on the dole.

maybe they were hoping the daft bugger would turn up, stranger things have happened

in regards to the idea above of amnesty sheds where truckers can have their wagon checked without risk of prosecution never going to happen every driver would run through them every trip. quick run through the shed wagon checked no worries . would take some manpower but anyone not wanting their wagon checked suddenly becomes very interesting

[the tribester]

Frank7 said:

Ructions said:

Christopher Hughes, who is wanted by police in connection with the deaths of 39 people in a lorry in Essex, has lost his heavy goods vehicles (HGV) licence.

Mr Hughes and his brother Ronan were named as suspects exactly one month ago after 39 Vietnamese nationals were found dead in a refrigerated lorry.

At a public inquiry in Belfast, his firm - C Hughes Logistics Ltd - with an address in Armagh, had its licence to operate several vehicles revoked.

Christopher Hughes did not attend.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50605...

From your first line, I assumed that you were saying that he’d lost his HGV driving licence, but from the link it sounds like his HGV operators licence has been revoked, there is a difference.
I may have misunderstood it, don’t take my opinion as gospel.

It might be his HGV licence too.

The Traffic Commissioner can revoke a vocational licence of an HGV driver.

Although small worry for him compared to everything else going on.