Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)
Discussion
durbster said:
The fact is, scientists in the 1970s predicted the global average temperate would steadily increase ....
Not all of the time they didn't.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSDLRm3jhc8
Watch at least the section from 19 mins on and in particular the comments of Prof. Schneider.
kerplunk said:
I'm trying to figure out how people living in mud huts and caves is a moneymaker. It doesn't seem like a very good business model to me 
It isn't. Great for population reduction in the medium to long terms as long as it doesn't happen too quickly.Now the "not too quickly" is the key to the business decisions.
Current management would surely want to live out their lives in whatever level of comfort they have become accustom to and using business practises with which they are very familiar.
After that ... it won't matter so much. The rules may be different.
Meanwhile what can one do to make one company more profitable - which is the only real purpose that underpins the need for the company to exist.
If everyday purchasers of your products are being financially squeezed and cannot afford the product in the volumes you are geared up for shipping or you need to avoid constantly losing money, what do you do?
Find new money, preferably form people who can print and deliver as much as you can persuade them to give you?
Who would that be then? Can you make that income last for, say, 20 or 30 years?
The PPI solution for Government Contracts perhaps?
Greta Thunberg named Time Person of the Year for 2019
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50740324
Greta Thunberg, the Swedish schoolgirl who inspired a global movement to fight climate change, has been named Time magazine's Person of the Year for 2019.
The 16-year-old is the youngest person to be chosen by the magazine in a tradition that started in 1927..........continues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50740324
Greta Thunberg, the Swedish schoolgirl who inspired a global movement to fight climate change, has been named Time magazine's Person of the Year for 2019.
The 16-year-old is the youngest person to be chosen by the magazine in a tradition that started in 1927..........continues
Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Just posted this on St Gretas page but maybe should have been here. It made me feel better anyway having a bit of a rant!
"When someone convinces me that ALL the factors have been taken into account and verified, I may review my position.
However, Earth has cycles, precession, natural events, slowing rotation chaotic weather behaviour, moving tectonic plates, meteor impacts to name a few in a short time which I do not believe have been modeled.
(A brighter man than me once created a spreadsheet for calculating the depth of a Nitrogen Brine interface at below ground. Densities, temperatures, pressures, flowrate, water content, surface area e.t.c. all factored in to give an answer. Guess what? We had to add an extra "fiddle factor" column into the sheet to get the sheet to be even close to reality!)
Call me a Denier if you like but for me it's a case of "Not Proven" and we should not waste money and resources on Canute type schemes.
By all means develop renewable alternatives because we believe fossil fuels are finite, and we will need to fossil fuels for two generations to allow the alternates to be developed.
Ah, I feel better now.
Scotty2
(CChem, MRSC, by the wa,y for what it's worth so not a complete numpty*)
"When someone convinces me that ALL the factors have been taken into account and verified, I may review my position.
However, Earth has cycles, precession, natural events, slowing rotation chaotic weather behaviour, moving tectonic plates, meteor impacts to name a few in a short time which I do not believe have been modeled.
(A brighter man than me once created a spreadsheet for calculating the depth of a Nitrogen Brine interface at below ground. Densities, temperatures, pressures, flowrate, water content, surface area e.t.c. all factored in to give an answer. Guess what? We had to add an extra "fiddle factor" column into the sheet to get the sheet to be even close to reality!)
Call me a Denier if you like but for me it's a case of "Not Proven" and we should not waste money and resources on Canute type schemes.
By all means develop renewable alternatives because we believe fossil fuels are finite, and we will need to fossil fuels for two generations to allow the alternates to be developed.
Ah, I feel better now.
Scotty2
(CChem, MRSC, by the wa,y for what it's worth so not a complete numpty*)
- others may disagree"
dandarez said:
robinessex said:
Extinction Rebellion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSkQyQLvW4
These are the idiots trying to influence governments
Jesus Wept! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSkQyQLvW4
These are the idiots trying to influence governments
Incidentally, ER are not idiots - they are anarchists (simply look up the backgrounds of these d
heads!)As for Dr Rupert Read.
What a f
king fruitcake! He should not be allowed in the same room as impressionable children under 12.His crackpot book is not subtle, nor or his crackpot lectures. No question marks from this d
head, it's the end, full stop. He tells these young children that they might not live much longer.
The utter s
te from this cult, and it is a cult, and full of prophets of doom amazingly gets attention from so-called 'intelligent' people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adAaWY3h0uc
Addressing young kids with 'You're gonna die young...!!'
You couldn't make this highly wicked and irresponsible brainwashing s
te up. But they do! It would be laughable, if it was not so worrying. Unf
king believable. The lunatic asylum needs its doors re-opening.
jshell said:
El stovey said:
jshell said:
Sorry, perhaps I’m missing something but didn’t you post his credentials and highlight his involvement in the NIPCC? 
My point is that highlighting the NIPCC link maybe wasn’t such a good idea.
robinessex said:
Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
"They became greener"? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Better stop that right away.
Where's Saddam when you need him. He knew what to do with the marshes in Iraq to stop them being too green.
Thinking of which the whole Iraq thing was basically a political experiment backed up, supposedly, by some science.
Did it or did it not work out well?
Edited by LongQ on Wednesday 11th December 16:41
jshell said:
dandarez said:
robinessex said:
Extinction Rebellion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSkQyQLvW4
These are the idiots trying to influence governments
Jesus Wept! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NSkQyQLvW4
These are the idiots trying to influence governments
Incidentally, ER are not idiots - they are anarchists (simply look up the backgrounds of these d
heads!)As for Dr Rupert Read.
What a f
king fruitcake! He should not be allowed in the same room as impressionable children under 12.His crackpot book is not subtle, nor or his crackpot lectures. No question marks from this d
head, it's the end, full stop. He tells these young children that they might not live much longer.
The utter s
te from this cult, and it is a cult, and full of prophets of doom amazingly gets attention from so-called 'intelligent' people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adAaWY3h0uc
Addressing young kids with 'You're gonna die young...!!'
You couldn't make this highly wicked and irresponsible brainwashing s
te up. But they do! It would be laughable, if it was not so worrying. Unf
king believable. The lunatic asylum needs its doors re-opening.
I’ve never seen anyone criticise you for “failing the planet” just some of your conspiracies regarding AGW.
El stovey said:
jshell said:
El stovey said:
jshell said:
Sorry, perhaps I’m missing something but didn’t you post his credentials and highlight his involvement in the NIPCC? My point is that highlighting the NIPCC link maybe wasn’t such a good idea.
So, again, can you undermine his qualifications, achievements or scientific understanding?
robinessex said:
Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Robin, can I ask you - in your opinion, is there no way that there can be any AGW, given your understanding of the science? Or are you one of those who accept that there has to be some degree of AGW but doubt the severity of this?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
LongQ said:
robinessex said:
Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
"They became greener"? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Better stop that right away.
Where's Saddam when you need him. He knew what to do with the marshes in Iraq to stop them being too green.
Thinking of which the whole Iraq thing was basically a political experiment backed up, supposedly, by some science.
Did it or did it not work out well?
Edited by LongQ on Wednesday 11th December 16:41
MX6 said:
robinessex said:
Climate change: Methane pulse detected from South Sudan wetlands
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Robin, can I ask you - in your opinion, is there no way that there can be any AGW, given your understanding of the science? Or are you one of those who accept that there has to be some degree of AGW but doubt the severity of this?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-507...
Scientists think they can now explain at least part of the recent growth in methane (CH4) levels in the atmosphere.
Researchers, led from Edinburgh University, UK, say their studies point to a big jump in emissions coming from just the wetlands of South Sudan.
Satellite data indicates the region received a large surge of water from East African lakes, including Victoria.
This would have boosted CH4 from the wetlands, accounting for a significant part of the rise in global methane.
Perhaps even up to a third of the growth seen in the period 2010-2016, when considered with East Africa as a whole.
"There's not much ground-monitoring in this region that can prove or disprove our results, but the data we have fits together beautifully," said Prof Paul Palmer.
"We have independent lines of evidence to show the Sudd wetlands expanded in size, and you can even see it in aerial imagery - they became greener," he told BBC News...................continues
Planet Earth throws another fly into the CC ointment.
Summary: EU states have rejected a set of rules governing which financial products can be called “green” and “sustainable” in a major setback for the bloc’s climate ambitions. Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia opposed the deal at a meeting in Brussels, as it would prevent investments in nuclear and coal projects from being labeled as green.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
turbobloke said:
Summary: EU states have rejected a set of rules governing which financial products can be called “green” and “sustainable” in a major setback for the bloc’s climate ambitions. Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia opposed the deal at a meeting in Brussels, as it would prevent investments in nuclear and coal projects from being labeled as green.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
How can Nuclear not be 'green', or is it an Inconvenient Truth?Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
jshell said:
turbobloke said:
Summary: EU states have rejected a set of rules governing which financial products can be called “green” and “sustainable” in a major setback for the bloc’s climate ambitions. Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia opposed the deal at a meeting in Brussels, as it would prevent investments in nuclear and coal projects from being labeled as green.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
How can Nuclear not be 'green', or is it an Inconvenient Truth?Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
turbobloke said:
Summary: EU states have rejected a set of rules governing which financial products can be called “green” and “sustainable” in a major setback for the bloc’s climate ambitions. Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia opposed the deal at a meeting in Brussels, as it would prevent investments in nuclear and coal projects from being labeled as green.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
How can Nuclear not be 'green', or is it an Inconvenient Truth?Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
jshell said:
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
turbobloke said:
Summary: EU states have rejected a set of rules governing which financial products can be called “green” and “sustainable” in a major setback for the bloc’s climate ambitions. Britain, France, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria and Slovenia opposed the deal at a meeting in Brussels, as it would prevent investments in nuclear and coal projects from being labeled as green.
Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
How can Nuclear not be 'green', or is it an Inconvenient Truth?Reuters, 11 December 2019
Based on this and decisions in China, Russia and to a degree India, forget 12 years / 2030 and 2050.
MX6 said:
Is there actually still even a debate about this, in 2019? Despite all the scientific evidence that's been accumulated that supports climate change and indeed anthropogenic global warming? There appears to be a political consensus on this, there is no meaningful debate.
We know that human activity has caused and is causing large greenhouse gas emissions, we know these activities have coincided with a sharp rise in greenhouse gases measured in the earths atmosphere, we know these greenhouse gases have a warming effect in the lab and in the earths atmosphere.
Of course there isn't. We know that human activity has caused and is causing large greenhouse gas emissions, we know these activities have coincided with a sharp rise in greenhouse gases measured in the earths atmosphere, we know these greenhouse gases have a warming effect in the lab and in the earths atmosphere.
Debate on this thread is simply a handful of people finding ever more elaborate ways to cling to their increasingly implausible conspiracy theory.
They're starved of new material because reality has long since overwhelmed it all so the poor buggers are stuck in a loop, repeating the same arguments over and over into a bemused void. I mean, even the 1970s global cooling nonsense has been dredged up again today despite being debunked more times than I can remember
It's more of a psychology case study on confirmation bias and the effectiveness of propaganda than anything to do with climate change and has been for years
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff