Climate change - the POLITICAL debate (Vol 6)
Discussion
kerplunk said:
Tony427 said:
Listened to the Lunchtime R4 News programme which majored on the Biden speech and the ramifications of it.
Their CC reporter was effusive about China setting targets for CO2 cuts due in 2050.
He then went on to say that China has built a huge industry making the batteries, solar panels, windturbines and the like for the green future.
He failed to mention what powered the factories and the the homes of the workers making these worthy green products.
Coal. Whats going to fuel the manufacture of all the new Chinese green components and machinery in the future.
You guessed it Coal.
He also failed to mention the 500 new coal plants China has announced it will be building.
Its almost as if either the Chinese hate their kids and the planet, or they know something we don't and are working to a plan we are not privy to.
China is the world leader in wind power generation, with the largest installed capacity of any nation[1] and continued rapid growth in new wind facilities.[2] With its large land mass and long coastline, China has exceptional wind power resources:[3] it is estimated China has about 2,380 gigawatts (GW) of exploitable capacity on land and 200GW on the sea.[4] Wind power remained China’s third-largest source of electricity at the end of 2020, accounting for 12.8% of total power generation capacity.[5]Their CC reporter was effusive about China setting targets for CO2 cuts due in 2050.
He then went on to say that China has built a huge industry making the batteries, solar panels, windturbines and the like for the green future.
He failed to mention what powered the factories and the the homes of the workers making these worthy green products.
Coal. Whats going to fuel the manufacture of all the new Chinese green components and machinery in the future.
You guessed it Coal.
He also failed to mention the 500 new coal plants China has announced it will be building.
Its almost as if either the Chinese hate their kids and the planet, or they know something we don't and are working to a plan we are not privy to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_China
China is the world's largest market for both photovoltaics and solar thermal energy. Since 2013 China has been the world's leading installer of solar photovoltaics (PV). In 2015, China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, narrowly surpassing Germany.[1][2][3] In 2017 China was the first country to pass 100 GW of cumulative installed PV capacity.[4][5] By the end of 2020, China had more than 250 GW of installed solar capacity.[6][7] As of May 2018, China held the record for largest operational solar project in its 1.5GW project at Tengger.[8] In late 2020, China turned on its largest solar farm with a capacity of 2.2 GW in Qinghai province.[9][10] The contribution to the total electric energy production remains modest[11] as the average capacity factor of solar power plants is relatively low at 17% on average. Of the 6,412 TWh electricity produced in China in 2017,[12] 118.2 TWh was generated by solar power, equivalent to 1.84% of total electricity production.[12] In 2019, China generated 234 TWh of electricity from solar power.[13] At the 2020 Climate Ambition Summit, China announced that its goal is to reach 1,200 GW of combined solar and wind capacity by 2030.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China
The country won praise last year after President Xi Jinping pledged to make the country "carbon neutral" by 2060. But regulators have since come under fire for failing to properly control the coal power sector, a major source of climate-warming greenhouse gas.
Including decommissions, China's coal-fired fleet capacity rose by a net 29.8 GW in 2020, even as the rest of the world made cuts of 17.2 GW, according to research released on Wednesday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), a U.S. think tank, and the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA).
"The runaway expansion of coal-fired power is driven by electricity companies' and local governments' interest in maximising investment spending, more than a real need for new capacity," said Lauri Myllyvirta, CREA lead analyst.
China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new...
As you are so fond of Wickipedia I'm surprised you missed the graph her and tables here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_i...
That shows China gets almost 10 times more electricity from generation using fossil fuels than it does from Renewables.
Yep China is really green.
Perhaps this is why we should give developing nations some slack
https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?count...
https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china?count...
jshell said:
It's 'touch your toes' time folks. You believers wanted this economic and social carnage. Your wish shall be granted.
Evidence required.Please also advise the cost of inaction. What to do with all time displaced peoples including many in the UK
Renewables are a good and sustainable growth industry.
Are you always so pessimistic?
Clive Milk said:
This whole thread is fed by a lot of middle aged blokes who don't like being told what to do and don't want to be out of pocket.
I can tell you this as I am a middle aged bloke who does not want to be out of pocket.
I earn money off the back of the emergency, so you got one thing wrong.I can tell you this as I am a middle aged bloke who does not want to be out of pocket.
Nickgnome said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
China must be thinking these idiot can't be this stupid.
The future truly is China's.
Size matters. The future truly is China's.
The West still outstrips China's per capita Co2 emissions.
It is not unreasonable to allow them some catch up. 2030 is not far away.
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Tony427 said:
Listened to the Lunchtime R4 News programme which majored on the Biden speech and the ramifications of it.
Their CC reporter was effusive about China setting targets for CO2 cuts due in 2050.
He then went on to say that China has built a huge industry making the batteries, solar panels, windturbines and the like for the green future.
He failed to mention what powered the factories and the the homes of the workers making these worthy green products.
Coal. Whats going to fuel the manufacture of all the new Chinese green components and machinery in the future.
You guessed it Coal.
He also failed to mention the 500 new coal plants China has announced it will be building.
Its almost as if either the Chinese hate their kids and the planet, or they know something we don't and are working to a plan we are not privy to.
China is the world leader in wind power generation, with the largest installed capacity of any nation[1] and continued rapid growth in new wind facilities.[2] With its large land mass and long coastline, China has exceptional wind power resources:[3] it is estimated China has about 2,380 gigawatts (GW) of exploitable capacity on land and 200GW on the sea.[4] Wind power remained China’s third-largest source of electricity at the end of 2020, accounting for 12.8% of total power generation capacity.[5]Their CC reporter was effusive about China setting targets for CO2 cuts due in 2050.
He then went on to say that China has built a huge industry making the batteries, solar panels, windturbines and the like for the green future.
He failed to mention what powered the factories and the the homes of the workers making these worthy green products.
Coal. Whats going to fuel the manufacture of all the new Chinese green components and machinery in the future.
You guessed it Coal.
He also failed to mention the 500 new coal plants China has announced it will be building.
Its almost as if either the Chinese hate their kids and the planet, or they know something we don't and are working to a plan we are not privy to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_China
China is the world's largest market for both photovoltaics and solar thermal energy. Since 2013 China has been the world's leading installer of solar photovoltaics (PV). In 2015, China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, narrowly surpassing Germany.[1][2][3] In 2017 China was the first country to pass 100 GW of cumulative installed PV capacity.[4][5] By the end of 2020, China had more than 250 GW of installed solar capacity.[6][7] As of May 2018, China held the record for largest operational solar project in its 1.5GW project at Tengger.[8] In late 2020, China turned on its largest solar farm with a capacity of 2.2 GW in Qinghai province.[9][10] The contribution to the total electric energy production remains modest[11] as the average capacity factor of solar power plants is relatively low at 17% on average. Of the 6,412 TWh electricity produced in China in 2017,[12] 118.2 TWh was generated by solar power, equivalent to 1.84% of total electricity production.[12] In 2019, China generated 234 TWh of electricity from solar power.[13] At the 2020 Climate Ambition Summit, China announced that its goal is to reach 1,200 GW of combined solar and wind capacity by 2030.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China
The country won praise last year after President Xi Jinping pledged to make the country "carbon neutral" by 2060. But regulators have since come under fire for failing to properly control the coal power sector, a major source of climate-warming greenhouse gas.
Including decommissions, China's coal-fired fleet capacity rose by a net 29.8 GW in 2020, even as the rest of the world made cuts of 17.2 GW, according to research released on Wednesday by Global Energy Monitor (GEM), a U.S. think tank, and the Helsinki-based Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA).
"The runaway expansion of coal-fired power is driven by electricity companies' and local governments' interest in maximising investment spending, more than a real need for new capacity," said Lauri Myllyvirta, CREA lead analyst.
China approved the construction of a further 36.9 GW of coal-fired capacity last year, three times more than a year earlier, bringing the total under construction to 88.1 GW. It now has 247 GW of coal power under development, enough to supply the whole of Germany.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-new...
As you are so fond of Wickipedia I'm surprised you missed the graph her and tables here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_i...
That shows China gets almost 10 times more electricity from generation using fossil fuels than it does from Renewables.
Yep China is really green.
jshell said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
China must be thinking these idiot can't be this stupid.
The future truly is China's.
It's unbelievable, isn't it? Truly unbelievable. They sell us semi-workable renewable plant whilst burning coal and building nuclear for their stable future!The future truly is China's.
turbobloke said:
jshell said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
China must be thinking these idiot can't be this stupid.
The future truly is China's.
It's unbelievable, isn't it? Truly unbelievable. They sell us semi-workable renewable plant whilst burning coal and building nuclear for their stable future!The future truly is China's.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/special/chinesedr...
kerplunk said:
Yeah but that's not news to me, but it seemed China making a not insignificant effort to deploy renewables was news to you.
Yes, do you know that when I did the Yangtze River cruise in 2019 culminating in spending the day at the Three Gorges hydro electric dam, bigggest the world I believe until they build an even bigger one in Tibet, I completely missed the fact that it didn't run on coal. Same as I also missed the air pollution warnings when in Shanghai and Bejiing. Theres a reason the Chinese wore masks before Covid and it wasn't to be polite to others. It was the deathly smog caused by all the renewables they were using.
Tony427 said:
kerplunk said:
Yeah but that's not news to me, but it seemed China making a not insignificant effort to deploy renewables was news to you.
Yes, do you know that when I did the Yangtze River cruise in 2019 culminating in spending the day at the Three Gorges hydro electric dam, bigggest the world I believe until they build an even bigger one in Tibet, I completely missed the fact that it didn't run on coal. Same as I also missed the air pollution warnings when in Shanghai and Bejiing. Theres a reason the Chinese wore masks before Covid and it wasn't to be polite to others. It was the deathly smog caused by all the renewables they were using.
Boris Johnson: Climate change about jobs not 'bunny hugging'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
I suggest that instead of getting excited about a minute change of a perfectly natural trace gas, get annoyed about this:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5g9-4fx60A
A radical plan to end plastic waste | Andrew Forrest
Have Australian scientists discovered a recycling solution to our plastic problem?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTgentcfzgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5g9-4fx60A
A radical plan to end plastic waste | Andrew Forrest
Have Australian scientists discovered a recycling solution to our plastic problem?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTgentcfzgg
Edited by robinessex on Friday 23 April 07:40
robinessex said:
Boris Johnson: Climate change about jobs not 'bunny hugging'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
500 people picking potatoes out of the ground instead of 1 tractor and a driver. Think of the health benefits too.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
Kawasicki said:
robinessex said:
Boris Johnson: Climate change about jobs not 'bunny hugging'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
500 people picking potatoes out of the ground instead of 1 tractor and a driver. Think of the health benefits too.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
jshell said:
Kawasicki said:
robinessex said:
Boris Johnson: Climate change about jobs not 'bunny hugging'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
500 people picking potatoes out of the ground instead of 1 tractor and a driver. Think of the health benefits too.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56843367
Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
At the same event, US President Joe Biden pledged to cut carbon emissions by 50-52% below 2005 levels by 2030.
Mr Johnson praised Mr Biden for "returning the US to the front rank of the fight against climate change".
One of Mr Biden's first acts as president was to rejoin the Paris climate agreement, months after his predecessor Donald Trump had taken the US out. ....continues
Excellent phrasing by our PM. What does it actually mean though?
"And he sought to play up the economic benefits of fighting climate change arguing: "It's vital for all of us to show that this is not all about some expensive, politically correct, green act of bunny hugging.
"What I'm driving at is this is about growth and jobs."....................continues
Isn't it weird that every government-sponsored initiative claims it will create jobs? Carrot dangling?
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