Tesla choose Germany over UK for its first European plant.

[JuniorD]

Earthdweller said:

DeepEnd said:

Isn’t Brexit going well?

Such a terrific idea.

Oh !

Have I missed the UK leaving the EU !

When did that happen ?

Brexit isn’t just an outcome, it’s also a process

[chow pan toon]

Lord.Vader said:

On completely different terms, interesting to see the unrest it causes between the plants, much like it doesn’t in the global manufacturing business I work in.

Re Tesla / Daimler market cap, remind me again how much profit Tesla have ever made?

It’ll all go bang, mass manufacturers are catching up and using their established infrastructure to industrialise and overtake Tesla, let’s be honest they offer a mediocre product at a premium price.

E-golf will take model 3 orders (what an awful car), Taycan will take P-x orders, the one I tested was absolute garbage, S class money and focus specification bar that ungainly screen.

Batteries won’t be the future anyway, so it’s all a moot point.

Phew, sounds like a lucky escape for us!

[XJSJohn]

ChocolateFrog said:

Did anyone genuinely believe that the European Gigafactiry was going to come here? Regardless of Brexit.

Brexit just seems like a readily available excuse.

I wonder if when the Japanese manufacturers pull out of European plants they'll blame brexit for that too.

As mentioned before, UK Also already has its own presence in the design and development of next gen batteries for EV's and other applications. Tesla is already lined up as one of teh customers / research parthers along with JCB, JLR, Nissan and more.

https://www.ukbic.co.uk/

Brexit didn't seem to impact this.

Tesla are in Germany for other commercial and logistics reasons.

[anonymous-user]

in 2016 Musk himself said Brexit wouldn't effect any decision, yet he now has said it has.

It is hard to know the real truth, I don't get the schadenfreude from remainers though, we are all in this togeather.

[anonymous-user]

XJSJohn said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Did anyone genuinely believe that the European Gigafactiry was going to come here? Regardless of Brexit.

Brexit just seems like a readily available excuse.

I wonder if when the Japanese manufacturers pull out of European plants they'll blame brexit for that too.

As mentioned before, UK Also already has its own presence in the design and development of next gen batteries for EV's and other applications. Tesla is already lined up as one of teh customers / research parthers along with JCB, JLR, Nissan and more.

https://www.ukbic.co.uk/

Brexit didn't seem to impact this.

Tesla are in Germany for other commercial and logistics reasons.

Anecdotally, my son, who lives and works in Berlin, has mentioned in the past that the city's finances are in the st, and they struggle to attract new business. He says there's infrastructure projects all over the city that never seem to get finished, the u bahn station where he lives has been 'nearly ready' for 10 years. I imagine Tesla opening a factory there would be a big boost for the place.

Edited by swiveleyedgit on Friday 15th November 12:03

[RedWhiteMonkey]

swiveleyedgit said:

Anecdotally, my son, who lives and works in Berlin, has mentioned in the past that the city's finances are in the st, and they struggle to attract new business. He says there's infrastructure projects all over the city that never seem to get finished, the u bahn station where he lives has been 'nearly ready' for 10 years. I imagine Tesla opening a factory there would be a big boost for the place.

Edited by swiveleyedgit on Friday 15th November 12:03

Berlin is a bit of oddity in terms of capital cities as it is relatively poor compared to the other major cities in its country. The major money in Germany is in the south. I would not be surprised if the German Government were offering incentives to Tesla.

[Keoparakolo]

Some impressive entrepreneurs on here all capable of showing multi-billionaire Elon Musk what he’s being doing wrong all these years. I particularly like the argument that you have to set up your business right next to your customer otherwise your business will fail.

If that is true then what future does the UK have, as we don’t really make much anymore and the financial service organisations seem to be moving some of their operations away too.

[poo at Paul's]

RedWhiteMonkey said:

Berlin is a bit of oddity in terms of capital cities as it is relatively poor compared to the other major cities in its country. The major money in Germany is in the south. I would not be surprised if the German Government were offering incentives to Tesla.

IS this the same Berlin that Merkel's lot got a proper shoeing in 2016 election dropping to just 18% of the vote...surely not....!!

[RedWhiteMonkey]

poo at Paul's said:

IS this the same Berlin that Merkel's lot got a proper shoeing in 2016 election dropping to just 18% of the vote...surely not....!!

The CDU heartland is definitely not Berlin and East Germany.

[Vanden Saab]

Keoparakolo said:

Some impressive entrepreneurs on here all capable of showing multi-billionaire Elon Musk what he’s being doing wrong all these years. I particularly like the argument that you have to set up your business right next to your customer otherwise your business will fail.

If that is true then what future does the UK have, as we don’t really make much anymore and the financial service organisations seem to be moving some of their operations away too.

Both of these assumptions are totally wrong...

[Keoparakolo]

Vanden Saab said:

Both of these assumptions are totally wrong...

So we make lots do we? Enough o attract investment? And no FS orgs have moved anything out of the UK?

[crankedup]

Earthdweller said:

Its the proximity to all the coal powered power stations and Russian gas to power his factory and production of his “ethical” electric cars and batteries

Yes Germany are still using the filthy coal to fire their energy needs (around 45%) No wonder they have an industrial edge when they give two fingers to our environment, just like China.

[Nickgnome]

crankedup said:

Earthdweller said:

Its the proximity to all the coal powered power stations and Russian gas to power his factory and production of his “ethical” electric cars and batteries

Yes Germany are still using the filthy coal to fire their energy needs (around 45%) No wonder they have an industrial edge when they give two fingers to our environment, just like China.

Is power much cheaper for industrial usage in Germany than the UK?

[anonymous-user]

Keoparakolo said:

So we make lots do we? Enough o attract investment? And no FS orgs have moved anything out of the UK?

LMFGTFY









And yes some FS business has left the UK...
https://www.theepochtimes.com/london-retains-globa...

[anonymous-user]

Nickgnome said:

Is power much cheaper for industrial usage in Germany than the UK?

No it's more, but it does cost them a lot less to produce.

[London424]

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Both of these assumptions are totally wrong...

So we make lots do we? Enough o attract investment? And no FS orgs have moved anything out of the UK?

The UK is the 9th largest manufacturer in the world.

[GT119]

London424 said:

Keoparakolo said:

Vanden Saab said:

Both of these assumptions are totally wrong...

So we make lots do we? Enough o attract investment? And no FS orgs have moved anything out of the UK?

The UK is the 9th largest manufacturer in the world.

I can’t decide if you are making a good or a bad point in this context.
Maybe you should have also added that the UK’s manufacturing output is only 10% of our GDP, the lowest of any top 20 country and represents 2% of global output.

[Keoparakolo]

fblm said:

Keoparakolo said:

So we make lots do we? Enough o attract investment? And no FS orgs have moved anything out of the UK?

LMFGTFY









And yes some FS business has left the UK...
https://www.theepochtimes.com/london-retains-globa...

Lots of great graphs, but that’s not the issue. The view on here seems to be that Musk had to set up in Germany to be near his end user manufacturing customers. So out of all those graphs can you tell me what is an end product? An end product is one that goes to retail next. If we don’t have many of them, then we’re screwed according to the Brexit fans, as a company can only set up next door to their customer.

See the point I’m making? I’m basically pointing out how ridiculous the Brexit supporter argument on here is that he had to set up in Germany, because cars are made there.

[anonymous-user]

Keoparakolo said:

Lots of great graphs, but that’s not the issue...

They answer the 3 questions you posed. Irrespective of your point about Brexit your assertion that we don't really make anything any more or attract FDI is wrong. It's a massive shame we didn't get the Tesla investment regardless. Playing devils advocate; maybe if the WA had been completed sensibly and on time, the level of ''Brexit uncertainty'' would not have contributed to the decision!

[Keoparakolo]

fblm said:

Keoparakolo said:

Lots of great graphs, but that’s not the issue...

They answer the 3 questions you posed. Irrespective of your point about Brexit your assertion that we don't really make anything any more or attract FDI is wrong. It's a massive shame we didn't get the Tesla investment regardless. Playing devils advocate; maybe if the WA had been completed sensibly and on time, the level of ''Brexit uncertainty'' would not have contributed to the decision!

My point was simplified to save writing paragraphs. However, I’ve now written those paragraphs to make it absolutely clear, as nobody wanted to take me on with the point I was really making. However, as that was implied, I’ve now made it explicit.

Can you answer those points, or is the stance that you have to have a factory in the same country as your main customers quite daft? Don’t forget that those customers are the final assembly point of the overall product before it goes to retail.

It comes down to this

Either, the UK is truly screwed, as we are not the producer of end products in manufacturing in anything of volume and so will struggle to attract any manufacturing from overseas at all.

Or, the argument being put forward by many Brexit supporters on here is a bit daft.