Voting as a muslim

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Discussion

R Mutt

1,422 posts

20 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
was8v said:
I dunno either, let's ask Boris where he has got all this money for Brexit
From Brexit?

bitchstewie

23,015 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
Agreed, but the suggestion by the MCB in the article was that Muslims could change the outcome in certain constituencies, which gives the impression that they vote the same way or the way in which the mosques advises.

Which i doubt is the case.

Does any party have anything in their manifesto that discriminates against muslims ?

Suspending a handful of people does not mean there is an issue with the parties policies or that them being in power would cause you any concern. The Chancellor doesn't appear to have any issue voting conservative.
In this country nobody mainstream that I'm aware of but at least one of the whack job parties does.

We do have "mainstream" politicians that share platforms and speak in other countries on a stage with parties that do specifically discriminate.

You'd have to ask yourself why they choose to associate with those people.

768

5,414 posts

44 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
was8v said:
I am proud to be British, except when Farage opens his mouth.
I'm not. I used to be, but not any more. I don't like what we've become. I find it very un-British. As that Durham farmer said, we went to be on the night of the referendum as Great Britain, and woke up as Little Britain. Just about sums it up for me.

This country is a laughing stock. I'm sure Johnson will get back in, and so what if he does. We get the leaders we deserve. The fact that we're going to elect a lying, cheating charlatan, a Poundland Trump, tells you all you need to know about the country we've turned into.
Yeah, every bit of worth this country has was tied up in the EU and soon it'll all be gone.

Keoparakolo

266 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
But if the conservative manage to reduce everybodies tax bill and make the country better, what does one loan idiot in Aberdeen matter ?

Unless you want it to matter
It’s not one though is it? It was 25 last week. 25 suspended, 15 of them were serving councillors. You can dismiss it as a small proportion, but that’s just those that have been suspended this week. No wonder Boris is running away from a proper investigation, despite promising it. Much better that he welcomes the EDL endorsement.

poo at Paul's

8,039 posts

123 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
mr_spock said:
poo at Paul's said:
The notion of even considering one's religion when looking at a political vote sits extremely ill to me. The two should be completely unrelated.
That you feel they are not, means something, somewhere, is wrong.
I'm certainly considering my birth religion with my vote. I'm actually an atheist, but Jewish by birth, upbringing, heritage and race. My religion, or lack of it, doesn't impact my vote. The Labour party's actions towards my fellow Jews certainly does, just as the BNP's attitudes towards people with a different skin colour did when they were a thing.

The difference between Labour and Conservative for me is illustrated by those holding the Chancellor/Shadow Chancellor positions. One is a Muslim, the other is a racist (see comments on Ian Austin, Esther McVey et al).

Yes, there are racists in the Tory party, and everywhere else. I've encountered it at work, in my hobbies etc. But it's not, IMHO, institutionally racist.
Yes, don’t misunderstand me, I get that it will influence you and the OP is considering it too and I am not saying either of you are wrong, but something is wrong that one’s religion should influence political allegiance.
It shows how fked up party politics is, that in 2019 Britain, it plays such a part.

Rare

25 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
It’s not one though is it? It was 25 last week. 25 suspended, 15 of them were serving councillors. You can dismiss it as a small proportion, but that’s just those that have been suspended this week. No wonder Boris is running away from a proper investigation, despite promising it. Much better that he welcomes the EDL endorsement.
What influence do those 25 have over national government policy / conservative manifesto ?

In fact what influence do they have over anything ?
They are hardly going to cancel Muslim bin collections or double their council tax just because they don’t like them.


bitchstewie

23,015 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
What influence do those 25 have over national government policy / conservative manifesto ?

In fact what influence do they have over anything ?
They are hardly going to cancel Muslim bin collections or double their council tax just because they don’t like them.
15 of them were councillors and I think at least one was a mayor.

pequod

750 posts

86 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
pequod said:
Voight Kampff said:
OP, forgive me if this has already been asked and answered but did you vote leave or remain?
Good question, and I wonder if the OP will be kind enough to tell us which constituency he lives in?
tumbleweed

Rare

25 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
Rare said:
What influence do those 25 have over national government policy / conservative manifesto ?

In fact what influence do they have over anything ?
They are hardly going to cancel Muslim bin collections or double their council tax just because they don’t like them.
15 of them were councillors and I think at least one was a mayor.
Ok but how can they effect the life of a Muslim in the uk ?

bitchstewie

23,015 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
Ok but how can they effect the life of a Muslim in the uk ?
A councillor presumably has some influence on all of those they represent or else why do it?

And even if the answer is that they can't I think it missed the point.

They're in public office and that st isn't acceptable.

Rare

25 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
A councillor presumably has some influence on all of those they represent or else why do it?

And even if the answer is that they can't I think it missed the point.

They're in public office and that st isn't acceptable.
I would assume the answer is they can’t.

You are right it isn’t acceptable, but as they have no real influence of any aspect of my or your life why would that stop somebody voting for a political party ?

Unless the party has come out and stated that these are there core values, they have no effect at all.

Voight Kampff

5,488 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
pequod said:
pequod said:
Voight Kampff said:
OP, forgive me if this has already been asked and answered but did you vote leave or remain?
Good question, and I wonder if the OP will be kind enough to tell us which constituency he lives in?
tumbleweed
I was thinking the same. Hmmmmm.............

bitchstewie

23,015 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
I would assume the answer is they can’t.

You are right it isn’t acceptable, but as they have no real influence of any aspect of my or your life why would that stop somebody voting for a political party ?

Unless the party has come out and stated that these are there core values, they have no effect at all.
One reason may be that if you're from a minority and you see that people who have an issue with you because of that are drawn to a particular political party you might start to ask yourself "What is it about that party that attracts those people?".

I expect if I were Jewish I'd be asking that when I look at Labour and going from s1962a's opening question I guess it's an issue for some Muslims with the Conservative party.

I'm neither of those and I wouldn't vote for Labour because of their issues and I wouldn't vote for Farage because he attracts a certain type.

I'm not convinced the Conservative's are on the same level but it seems there may be an issue hence the calls for an inquiry.

Keoparakolo

266 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
I would assume the answer is they can’t.

You are right it isn’t acceptable, but as they have no real influence of any aspect of my or your life why would that stop somebody voting for a political party ?

Unless the party has come out and stated that these are there core values, they have no effect at all.
Your argument is ridiculous. By your reckoning, I could run up and down the street calling people n*****s, p****s, and any sort of racist insult I like and it’s fine, as I can’t really affect their lives.

You need to get a grip.

The ones that have been suspended are potentially just those stupid enough to be caught, they could be the tip of an iceberg, equally they may be the sum total of it. The thing is that we’re not going to find out as Boris has reneged on the promise he made at Sajid Javid’s urging to investigate Islamophobia within the Tory Party. That should tell you something, it won’t, but it should.

Keoparakolo

266 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Voight Kampff said:
pequod said:
pequod said:
Voight Kampff said:
OP, forgive me if this has already been asked and answered but did you vote leave or remain?
Good question, and I wonder if the OP will be kind enough to tell us which constituency he lives in?
tumbleweed
I was thinking the same. Hmmmmm.............
Out of interest why does it matter?

JuanCarlosFandango

2,053 posts

19 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Rare said:
I would assume the answer is they can’t.

You are right it isn’t acceptable, but as they have no real influence of any aspect of my or your life why would that stop somebody voting for a political party ?

Unless the party has come out and stated that these are there core values, they have no effect at all.
I can well understand that people wouldn't want to vote for a party they thought was full of racists, even more so if that party was racist against you. I just can't really see any evidence of the Tories being that party.

I believe this is a retaliatory campaign by people who see Labour mired in accusations of antisemitism with Jewish MPs leaving the party complaining about harassment and an investigation by the EHRC (which it's hard to believe is full of frothing right wingers desperate to discredit Labour); and they think similar accusations against the Tories will mitigate the damage.

Look at that article before about the prospective candidate in Aberdeen. Can you imagine how much trawling and detective work you would have to do to unearth such stuff from 7 years ago? And how desperate you would have to be to spin such questions as holocaust denial? It is banal, which is why it was in the Mirror in the first place.

The only mistake the Tories are making at the moment in my view is to pander to this nonsense.

Keoparakolo

266 posts

2 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I can well understand that people wouldn't want to vote for a party they thought was full of racists, even more so if that party was racist against you. I just can't really see any evidence of the Tories being that party.

I believe this is a retaliatory campaign by people who see Labour mired in accusations of antisemitism with Jewish MPs leaving the party complaining about harassment and an investigation by the EHRC (which it's hard to believe is full of frothing right wingers desperate to discredit Labour); and they think similar accusations against the Tories will mitigate the damage.

Look at that article before about the prospective candidate in Aberdeen. Can you imagine how much trawling and detective work you would have to do to unearth such stuff from 7 years ago? And how desperate you would have to be to spin such questions as holocaust denial? It is banal, which is why it was in the Mirror in the first place.

The only mistake the Tories are making at the moment in my view is to pander to this nonsense.
You “just can’t really see it”, because you don’t want to. Have a read of a few of the articles here and then tell me you “can’t really see it”

https://www.google.com/search?q=islamophobia%20tor...

A former Tory Party Chair is calling it out, Sajid Javid asked all leadership candidates to commit to an inquiry, 25 current and former councillors suspended last week.

Voight Kampff

5,488 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
Keoparakolo said:
Voight Kampff said:
pequod said:
pequod said:
Voight Kampff said:
OP, forgive me if this has already been asked and answered but did you vote leave or remain?
Good question, and I wonder if the OP will be kind enough to tell us which constituency he lives in?
tumbleweed
I was thinking the same. Hmmmmm.............
Out of interest why does it matter?
I think you know why. It's glaringly obvious.

bitchstewie

23,015 posts

158 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I just can't really see any evidence of the Tories being that party.
That was what an independent inquiry would have determined.
  • Why do you think Sajid Javid called for an independent investigation?
  • Why do you think all of the leadership including Boris candidates agreed?
  • Why do you think Boris backtracked?
  • Why all the suspensions?
All parties will have bad apples. This week a bunch have been kicked out.

Are they on the same scale as Labour? Pretty sure the answer to that is no.

But I would think what impression the back-peddling about the inquiry gives.


Voight Kampff

5,488 posts

108 months

Tuesday 19th November
quotequote all
It's quite obvious that any inquest, at this point in time, will be a distraction. The media and anybody with an axe to grind, wishing to make political gain, will be all over it with the aim of dragging down the Tories or painting a picture of them all as racists. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows this isn't widespread or institutionally evident. It's also very time consuming to hold inquest after inquest and it's a rallying cry for those who would like to use this to create division or to portray a community under attack.
It's better not to pigeonhole every little category of xenophobic behaviour and instead deal with it all in one go.
After all it's bad regardless of who it's aimed at, isn't it?