Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[Mobile Chicane]

Brave Fart said:

V10leptoquark said:

What is going on in the mindset of left wing voters today?

Two answers:

1. they always vote Labour, and don't bother thinking about the implications of doing so.
2. they are filled with rage and hate. Rage at inequality/Capitalism/those with more wealth, and hatred, genuine venom, against Tories.

And those two things overwhelm any reservations they might have about being "a bit nasty to a handful of Jews".

Allow me to answer that for you.

1 I've been alive a long time. I remember the 70s fondly: when a family home in a blue collar suburb was affordable on just one average wage.

2 I voted Green during the Bliar years. I saw through the soundbites and the bullst.

3 I have a nice house, work I enjoy, and I am by many people's standards, quite comfortably off. Yet I realise that I am only in this position thanks to tertiary education and maintenance grants free at the point of use. Not to mention life-saving medical treatment which would have bankrupted me had I been resident in the US.
Over the course of my working life I have paid back the cost of my education and healthcare many times via higher rate tax and NI. I merely want today's young people to have the advantages starting out that I have had. Not be saddled with debt and hopelessness.

4 I don't hate Tories. I don't hate anyone. Legitimate criticism of the actions of the state of Israel against its Palestinian citizens is not anti-Semitism, much as Zionists try to conflate the two.

5 Surely no-one with a shred of intellect believes any of that Jewish-global-capitalism-conspiracy crap?

[Munter]

Mobile Chicane said:

5 Surely no-one with a shred of intellect

That's probably only 50% of the population.

[Burwood]

Chicane, what you say is perfectly reasonable. Although I'm not sure what relevance point 5 has to do with this reports findings. Are you suggesting those that believe such things are just stupid and should be ignored? I don't think they necessarily do believe it but like most abuse, words like this are used to cause distress and hurt. In any event what you say has nothing to do with Labours obvious AS problem. The evidence from 70 individuals is damning, and clearly a Party can't prevent such things being said/done but what the report shows is how Labour ignored it and actively tried to cover it up.

[Oakey]

The Surveyor said:

bazza white said:

Hes got himself another secret document

Shows he can't be trusted with secrets

If this was anyone else there'd be cries of Russian interference

BOR said:

Why post stuff like this ? You can't possibly be unaware of the islamaphobia problem within the Conservative Party.

"The disclosures came as the Tories face increasing pressure over Islamophobia following a slew of revelations, with the Equality and Human Rights Commission considering whether to launch a formal investigation into the party".

So when Labour are accused of antisemitism you think it's a smear campaign and you won't believe otherwise unless you have evidence of some substance?

But when there are claims of Islamophobia in the Tory party you're quite happy to forego that evidence you demanded earlier?

Edited by Oakey on Friday 6th December 13:55

[mikal83]

FN2TypeR said:

Dont like rolls said:

You can say the same (if not worse) about the SNP, if you want to see blind hate travel North.

As an Englishman in Scotland this past eight years I can confirm that I fear for my safety in a daily basis,

I'm terrified right now as it happens!

My cousin was married to a helicopter pilot operating out of Aberdeen. She says she was shouted at daily with.....what are you doing here, fk off back to England you scum.

[biggbn]

mikal83 said:

FN2TypeR said:

Dont like rolls said:

You can say the same (if not worse) about the SNP, if you want to see blind hate travel North.

As an Englishman in Scotland this past eight years I can confirm that I fear for my safety in a daily basis,

I'm terrified right now as it happens!

My cousin was married to a helicopter pilot operating out of Aberdeen. She says she was shouted at daily with.....what are you doing here, fk off back to England you scum.

Lived in Scotland all my life, Dundee for last thirty years or so, and I have never witnessed such behaviour. I do not doubt there are isolated incidents such as you describe, just as there are xenophobic incidents by the mindless and bereft of intellect in any country, but please do not think we are all like that.

[Mobile Chicane]

Burwood said:

Chicane, what you say is perfectly reasonable. Although I'm not sure what relevance point 5 has to do with this reports findings. Are you suggesting those that believe such things are just stupid and should be ignored? I don't think they necessarily do believe it but like most abuse, words like this are used to cause distress and hurt. In any event what you say has nothing to do with Labours obvious AS problem. The evidence from 70 individuals is damning, and clearly a Party can't prevent such things being said/done but what the report shows is how Labour ignored it and actively tried to cover it up.

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

[ORD]

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

[BOR]

Oakey said:

So when Labour are accused of antisemitism you think it's a smear campaign and you won't believe otherwise unless you have evidence of some substance?

But when there are claims of Islamophobia in the Tory party you're quite happy to forego that evidence you demanded earlier?

Edited by Oakey on Friday 6th December 13:55

You can't have it both ways. Choose one.

[Mobile Chicane]

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

[A Winner Is You]

Mobile Chicane said:

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

Raed Salah.

[Getragdogleg]

Mobile Chicane said:

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

At the very least read the Twitter links above....

[Mobile Chicane]

A Winner Is You said:

Mobile Chicane said:

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

Raed Salah.

Is he a Labour Party member?

[bitchstewie]

Mobile Chicane said:

So state an example...

I'd say there are plenty to choose from

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/12025214995...

I think I said on another thread but I am genuinely amazed st like that can happen in a mainstream political party in 2019.

[MellowshipSlinky]

Mobile Chicane said:

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

Eh?
Even Corbyn himself has admitted there’s an issue in the Labour Party.

You’re just being silly now.

[A Winner Is You]

Mobile Chicane said:

A Winner Is You said:

Mobile Chicane said:

ORD said:

Mobile Chicane said:

I think the document needs to be opened to public scrutiny. I see no 'obvious' Labour anti-Semitism problem, and would like to know what people mean by that accusation.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement. It’s beyond argument that Labour has a very big problem with anti-semitism. Denying it makes you part of the problem.

So state an example...

Raed Salah.

Is he a Labour Party member?

Was he embraced by Jeremy Corbyn and described as an "honoured citizen"?

[Mobile Chicane]

bhstewie said:

Mobile Chicane said:

So state an example...

I'd say there are plenty to choose from

https://twitter.com/AdamWagner1/status/12025214995...

I think I said on another thread but I am genuinely amazed st like that can happen in a mainstream political party in 2019.

I would agree that the use of language like that referenced is unacceptable and has no place in the Labour Party or anywhere else.

If proven, the member should be expelled.

There is an art to polite disagreement which some people evidently need to learn.

[surveyor]

My reading on this....

All parties will have individuals who have unacceptable views. If these are private and do not affect their decisions that is pat of people not agreeing with each other.

Each party must deal with members who do use their views to berate, or influence their decisions, or make them public (although they are idiots if they do the latter in any case).

Having said that, in a simplistic basis, the anti-semetic issue in Labour has been a problem for sometime and has not been dealt with. When Jews are leaving the party publicly because of this then someone is putting their head into the sand, and simple diversion is not going to work.

[bitchstewie]

Mobile Chicane said:

I would agree that the use of language like that referenced is unacceptable and has no place in the Labour Party or anywhere else.

If proven, the member should be expelled.

There is an art to polite disagreement which some people evidently need to learn.

It goes beyond "language" though it's about views.

What makes someone even begin to think that way?

I've never voted Labour in my life but I would never have anticipated something like this happening under Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or Ed Milliband.

The leader of a political party sets the tone and direction for the party.

He's had four years and that kind of thing is the tone and direction that's take hold on his watch.

That's absolutely unforgivable.

[Brave Fart]

Mobile Chicane said:

I would agree that the use of language like that referenced is unacceptable and has no place in the Labour Party or anywhere else.
If proven, the member should be expelled.
There is an art to polite disagreement which some people evidently need to learn.

The submission by the JLM, including 70 statements from Labour Party staffers, is a litany of examples of anti-semitism. Proof, if any were needed, of the hate that exists in the hearts of some Labour members.

It isn't just one member, is it?

And here's the kicker. Jeremy Corbyn has either chosen to ignore it, or thinks it is OK - whatever he says in public. The man is either incompetent, or he's anti-semitic. Or both.