Jeremy Corbyn (Vol. 4)

[jonby]

jakesmith said:

jonby said:

Here is the full Ashworth tape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FIrFGFAzQI

Quite astonishing when listened to in full

The only people who will believe it is 'banter' or 'joshing' are those who do not listen to the tape - which to be fair will be quite a lot

I'm sure you're right

I listened to Ashworth on radio 5 trying to offer that defence before I'd heard the tape and it was obvious it wasn't banter. After listening to the tape, the proposition is many times more ludicrous. But that is kind of the way in this election on all sides of the debate

Perhaps more frightening on the tape was the idea that if corbyn gets in, the country will be in a state of borderline national emergency before he's even in No.10 - the assumption that there will be a run on the pound, a stockmarket crash and people leaving the country, just based on exit polls (if they suggest labour will win).

[Supercilious Sid]

juice said:

Ashworth reminds me so much of David Brent from The Office....

I thought that too when he got exasperated.

[bitchstewie]

On the one hand I feel sorry for Ashworth as he has been made to look properly fking stupid and has likely been caught out saying what large numbers of Labour MPs privately believe to be true.

But then you think that he's gone on TV however many times it is and basically lied his balls off about how everyone should vote for Jeremy just because he's wearing a red scarf.

They all do it, we all know that, but that tape really is something.

[Mothersruin]

bhstewie said:

On the one hand I feel sorry for Ashworth as he has been made to look properly fking stupid and has likely been caught out saying what large numbers of Labour MPs privately believe to be true.

But then you think that he's gone on TV however many times it is and basically lied his balls off about how everyone should vote for Jeremy just because he's wearing a red scarf.

They all do it, we all know that, but that tape really is something.

I wonder what would have happened had he just said, 'Yeah, you're right! I don't know why I'm backing this fool - I'd hoped to be someone who could influence from within but they're too far gone now.' Drop mic, exit left.

Instead he doubled down with this ludicrous 'banter' bks, removing all doubt he's a slimy fool himself.

[ntiz]

fblm said:

andymadmak said:

I do despair of the quality of politicians we have these days. Very few of any intellect or with the courage to stand up for what is right.

Who would be a politician these days? What an utterly miserable job. Pretty much everyone in the country thinks you're a c***, the media exist solely to tear you or your family apart, social media is an utter cesspit of faux outrage and hatred and all for the pay of a low grade accountant. Then we wonder why we have a bunch of second rate clowns standing! 'We' are as much of the problem as the MP's are. Hopefully once Brexit is out of the way, for better or for worse, we can get back to some semblance of good governance and opposition.

Makes you wonder what actually motivates these people to do it?

You would hope a vision for a better country and genuinely wanting to make a difference. However the way they swing and slither to hang on to any power would suggest it’s simply power and ego.

I imagine it is quite attractive for a certain type walking through the corridors of Westminster making decisions that will affect millions.

[jakesmith]

I wonder what the nature of the relationship was before - how close friends
Time is a healer and all that but I can't believe the bloke will be on his Xmas card list at least this year

[Camoradi]

jakesmith said:

I wonder what the nature of the relationship was before - how close friends
Time is a healer and all that but I can't believe the bloke will be on his Xmas card list at least this year

I think the last posting date from Siberia may have already gone

[bitchstewie]

Mothersruin said:

I wonder what would have happened had he just said, 'Yeah, you're right! I don't know why I'm backing this fool - I'd hoped to be someone who could influence from within but they're too far gone now.' Drop mic, exit left.

Instead he doubled down with this ludicrous 'banter' bks, removing all doubt he's a slimy fool himself.

Oh if you're Johnson you couldn't wish for a better early Christmas Present than a senior opposition shadow minister slating their boss and your opponent in Thursday's election.

If I'm honest I don't know much about Ashworth but when I've heard him speak I've found him pretty inoffensive so I do feel a bit sorry for him.

But not much

[Mothersruin]

bhstewie said:

Mothersruin said:

I wonder what would have happened had he just said, 'Yeah, you're right! I don't know why I'm backing this fool - I'd hoped to be someone who could influence from within but they're too far gone now.' Drop mic, exit left.

Instead he doubled down with this ludicrous 'banter' bks, removing all doubt he's a slimy fool himself.

Oh if you're Johnson you couldn't wish for a better early Christmas Present than a senior opposition shadow minister slating their boss and your opponent in Thursday's election.

If I'm honest I don't know much about Ashworth but when I've heard him speak I've found him pretty inoffensive so I do feel a bit sorry for him.

But not much

[ORD]

bhstewie said:

Oh if you're Johnson you couldn't wish for a better early Christmas Present than a senior opposition shadow minister slating their boss and your opponent in Thursday's election.

If I'm honest I don't know much about Ashworth but when I've heard him speak I've found him pretty inoffensive so I do feel a bit sorry for him.

But not much

I don't feel remotely sorry for him.

He knows a Corbyn government would wreck the economy, yet he is campaigning for exactly that, just hoping it does not happen. He is despicable.

[jonby]

[quote=jakesmith]I wonder what the nature of the relationship was before - how close friends
Time is a healer and all that but I can't believe the bloke will be on his Xmas card list at least this year[/quote

On the radio today, he must have said at least 6 or 7 times that they had gone on a 3 week holiday together........10 or 15 years ago

[jonby]

bhstewie said:

On the one hand I feel sorry for Ashworth as he has been made to look properly fking stupid and has likely been caught out saying what large numbers of Labour MPs privately believe to be true.

But then you think that he's gone on TV however many times it is and basically lied his balls off about how everyone should vote for Jeremy just because he's wearing a red scarf.

They all do it, we all know that, but that tape really is something.

As you say, they all do it. Must be very difficult for someone who wants to climb the ranks in a long political career to speak honestly about every leader they have in their party

What makes this pretty unusual is that you have a large proportion of labour party members who worship corbyn in a cult like phenomenon, at odds with many of the party MPs and a huge number of traditional labour voters who think somewhat differently

[Lotobear]

He always came over as slippery and insincere and now he's gone and proved it beyond doubt.

Corbyn has more integrity, even though I hate his politics.

[AstonZagato]

andymadmak said:

El stovey said:

Change U.K. and whatever party soubry is in haven’t done well neither have the libdems.

It’s pretty hard to start a new party, due to funding and tribal voting. Farage has been successful in the eu elections but he’s single issue and hasn’t ever won a seat in Parliament.

I think they’re waiting to see what happens after brexit/this election. Hopefully after it all settles corbyn/McDonnell/Rayner etc will either get overthrown or a new party might arrive from the ashes.

That might be the case, but Momentum still hold the reins of power within Labour, and so I can't see the party moving back to centre ground any time soon, even if Labour were to take an absolute hammering on Thursday. (which they won't imho) As you correctly say, starting a new party - at least one that survives beyond the initial swell of public support - is very difficult indeed.

I do despair of the quality of politicians we have these days. Very few of any intellect or with the courage to stand up for what is right. All the parties are crap at the moment. They all lie, they all twist, and they all get outraged when one of the others pulls off a stunt of some kind, only then to repeat their own variation of that stunt themselves shortly after. Not one of them is truly worthy of our votes. I'll certainly be holding my nose on Thursday when I cast my ballot. - and vote I will, because to not vote and then complain about what happens next would be utterly hypocritical (yes SIBI, that's you!)

So my choices are mendacity vs (mendacity + economic oblivion) vs (mendacity + desperation) vs (mendacity + delusional.) In Scotland I'd have an extra choice of (Mendacity + more mendacity + incompetence + bigotry.)

It has been said that we get the politicians we deserve, and I fear that that statement has never been truer than it is today. We are never going to improve our politics until we can attract decent people, from all walks of life, of all political viewpoints to offer themselves up for election. And then we have to be willing to vote for them, even if they don't indulge in the bribery and soundbite fest than characterises election campaigning today.
We have to listen to what people actually say on complex issues, rather than insisting that everything be encapsulated in a short soundbite - soundbites that are all too frequently wilfully misinterpreted by the other side.

We also have to call out the dirty tricks and lies when we see them on ALL sides.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly of all, we need to call out the media, both print, social and broadcast to do its job better.
The media plays a central role in the decline of modern politics imho. What was once a source of information , largely reliable in the eyes of many, is now dumbed down beyond all recognition, fundamentally biased and unable to see anything beyond their own opinions. 21st century media is too keen to speculate and make up the story itself rather than investigate properly and report the facts.

The media has become toxic and corrosive to our democracy and it needs to shape up. Frankly we need to clone Andrew Neil and put him everywhere, in the face of every politician, but in the absence of that, it's surely not to much to ask for a more serious, professional approach, and less silly grandstanding and 'have you stopped beating your wife yet' style questions (yes, that's aimed at you Joe Pike)

What terrifies me is not this election - Labour has already lost it - but rather the next.

John McDonnell has already positioned himself to be the interim leader when Corbyn goes (read Kingmaker) and to run the inquiry into why they lost. Which I confidently predict will come to the conclusion that they were not left wing enough. This will prompt a further and total purge of the moderates.

After four years of BJ's buffonery, the British public will want to try something - anything - else and Labour will be voted in on a manifesto that is worse for the economy of the country than the one we see today. God help us. Thankfully, I will be retired and my kids will have flown the nest. Downsizing and moving abroad will be entirely possible.

[768]

ORD said:

I don't feel remotely sorry for him.

He knows a Corbyn government would wreck the economy, yet he is campaigning for exactly that, just hoping it does not happen. He is despicable.

I know what you mean and I don't take too him, but it must be difficult.

If you're a decent person trying to make a difference and a bunch of extremists gradually consume the very thing that gives you a political identity I'm not sure quite when I'd jump, as much as I'd hope it would be before this point. I wonder how many of those who did make that jump will be elected again. Luciana Berger not being reelected would leave an unpleasant taste.

I'm having a hard enough time just knowing when to cut an IT contract with a bunch of incompetent s and I can just pick up another one of those the same week if necessary.

[Supercilious Sid]

Where are all of those PH Labour voters who normally preface their posts with ' I'm no Corbyn supporter but....'?
They have gone very quiet.

[Mothersruin]

How old will McDonnell be by the next time an election rolls round.

That said, the way things have been going, that could be in January...

[Digga]

AstonZagato said:

What terrifies me is not this election - Labour has already lost it - but rather the next.

John McDonnell has already positioned himself to be the interim leader when Corbyn goes (read Kingmaker) and to run the inquiry into why they lost. Which I confidently predict will come to the conclusion that they were not left wing enough. This will prompt a further and total purge of the moderates.

After four years of BJ's buffonery, the British public will want to try something - anything - else and Labour will be voted in on a manifesto that is worse for the economy of the country than the one we see today. God help us. Thankfully, I will be retired and my kids will have flown the nest. Downsizing and moving abroad will be entirely possible.

I quite like to look at scenarios several steps ahead. This is not a bad point.

Your bit that I've highlighted in bold made me snigger. It could be the case, but equally, one would imagine that even the most megalomaniac union boss (and that's a contest, in and of itself) is likely to conclude their chance of influencing government lies first and foremost with an electable Labour party, rather than a tinpot communist party.

[jonby]

AstonZagato said:

.

After four years of BJ's buffonery, the British public will want to try something - anything - else and Labour will be voted in on a manifesto that is worse for the economy of the country than the one we see today. God help us. Thankfully, I will be retired and my kids will have flown the nest. Downsizing and moving abroad will be entirely possible.

I hope not but it's very possible

I don't even think it matters if BJ is a buffoon (although he is)

Firstly we are headed into a recession regardless so winning this election is a poisoned chalice even for a party with a pretty conservative (no pun intended) manifesto

Secondly, when we 'get brexit done', the debate will just move to a different facet of brexit - future trading agreements, etc. It will dominate, frustrate and distract

So I don't think the tories, if voted in this week, will find it easy to win the next election no matter who heads labour

However it does appear that labour are so embarrassed that they still haven't had a female leader, they will ensure the next one is. So worst case scenario, angela raynor or rebecca long whatsit. Best case, perhaps jess philips. No doubt they will try to get someone BAME or perhaps LGBT up there as deputy

[dangerousB]

jakesmith said:

I wonder what the nature of the relationship was before - how close friends

Oh, he was a really good mate - they spent 3 weeks in the States with one another 15 years ago.