The cost of medicines in the USA and here
Discussion
The Moose said:
jamoor said:
It very much is a privilige for those that can afford it, luckily here it's a right that can't be taken away from you.
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.What if you’re out of work for 6 months due to your employer going broke?
WinstonWolf said:
The Moose said:
jamoor said:
It very much is a privilige for those that can afford it, luckily here it's a right that can't be taken away from you.
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.The Moose said:
jamoor said:
It very much is a privilige for those that can afford it, luckily here it's a right that can't be taken away from you.
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.The cover required can also impact the rate substantially.
Nickgnome said:
WinstonWolf said:
The Moose said:
jamoor said:
It very much is a privilige for those that can afford it, luckily here it's a right that can't be taken away from you.
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.
WinstonWolf said:
They're healthy, I'll probably need an annual MRI at the very least for life. I'm the exception to the rule
I expect the answer in your case would be ‘ The computer says NO’. It’s a brutal system in my opinion. I think on average $9,000 per person per annum. I’m told that the care however is excellent.
Nickgnome said:
WinstonWolf said:
They're healthy, I'll probably need an annual MRI at the very least for life. I'm the exception to the rule
I expect the answer in your case would be ‘ The computer says NO’. It’s a brutal system in my opinion. I think on average $9,000 per person per annum. I’m told that the care however is excellent.
I've comfortably had over six figures out of the NHS, I'd be in big trouble if I was in the US...The prescription stuff isn't where you get stung, I can go to Walgreens or CVS and get their brand stuff for not very much. Where you the real cost is here is for copays and deductibles - you spend thousands, even with good healthcare on that for treatments, you're out of pocket with a family for several thousand dollars every year before the insurance covers you.
The Moose said:
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.
To what level of cover?It is senseless to defend the US system of healthcare. They spend a lot of money to get healthcare outcomes no better than anywhere else, often worse than other developed countries.
it's ok though because like many aspects of American life what they believe to be true (best healthcare system in the world) trumps the facts, so to speak.
Halb said:
The Moose said:
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.
In the UK, the US, or both?jamoor said:
Does the price increase with age?
What if you’re out of work for 6 months due to your employer going broke?
Yes it does increase with age.What if you’re out of work for 6 months due to your employer going broke?
Premium Tax Credits (I’ll expand on this further down)
WinstonWolf said:
I doubt I'd be able to, I'm up to fifteen operations and counting...
That has no impact on the cost of the premiums at all. Deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance yes, but it’s not the end of the world.Nickgnome said:
Why not post some real rates personal and company contributions. as I did earlier (1219) for my daughter and her family. Only returned in Tuesday so these are bang up to date.
The cover required can also impact the rate substantially.
Forgive me, but clearly you don’t understand the system! I can post some real rates - we’re selecting our 2020 plans right now. The monthly premium amount on it’s own is entirely useless and meaningless!The cover required can also impact the rate substantially.
Nickgnome said:
I’m told that the care however is excellent.
This you do understand!!! The care is on the whole a much higher standard than in the UK. My wife’s sister had a baby less than a month after ours. The care was significantly better here than the UK both the lead up to the birth, the birth and the post-birth care.pavarotti1980 said:
If that is the case why doesnt everyone have it? 40-45 million without it apparently
As I said in an earlier post, if you don’t have money you can still get insurance. There is no reason to end up with a $200,000 bill these days. And for the last 9 years and 9 months.gregs656 said:
To what level of cover?
It is senseless to defend the US system of healthcare. They spend a lot of money to get healthcare outcomes no better than anywhere else, often worse than other developed countries.
it's ok though because like many aspects of American life what they believe to be true (best healthcare system in the world) trumps the facts, so to speak.
My family and I get significantly better care here that we ever did back in the UK.It is senseless to defend the US system of healthcare. They spend a lot of money to get healthcare outcomes no better than anywhere else, often worse than other developed countries.
it's ok though because like many aspects of American life what they believe to be true (best healthcare system in the world) trumps the facts, so to speak.
_____
A little history lesson
Years ago (I want to say pre 2009 but don’t quote me on that date), if you were young, fit and healthy you could buy health insurance for a pittance. Girls more than boys due to pregnancy etc but if you are young, fit and healthy you could buy cover for not a lot of money. On the other hand, if you were old or had a chronic illness you were cream crackered - rates through the roof and it became unaffordable.
My understanding is that this was exactly the problem that Obamacare/Affordable Care Act set out to solve - the fact that when you’re unlikely to have an event insurance is cheap but when you are likely to have an event that premium doubles, triples and more. It was leaving a lot of the elderly and diabetics etc effectively uninsurable. My understanding was that employers were even making hiring decisions based on this - they had to offer to pay the same %age of everyone’s healthcare premium regardless of if they were a single 25 year old fit and healthy male or a family of 12 all of whom have chronic illnesses.
What Obamacare/Affordable Care Act set out to do was to essentially only make the age the determining factor. Pre-existing conditions are not a thing - by law, they are not allowed to be thing. A lot of preventative procedures by law have to be 100% covered by the policy etc.
What this ultimately meant, and why a lot of people have a problem with the ACA, was that the premiums increased overnight by a huge amount for a large portion of society. I have heard different numbers ranging from 100% to 300% increases. I guess it probably depends on how you purchased your policy previously.
I happen to have a pricing matrix for a health insurance policy for a very large US company. As an easy number to compare. There are 4 different health plans with varying different levels of cover that range from under $300 a month for an under 30 individual to under $1,400 a month for a 75+ year old individual. That’s for their cheapest plan - the plan you’d buy if you were fit and healthy with no expected procedures. The employer then contributes a percentage of this number (anywhere from 50-100%, I’ve heard 80% is normal for a single person). So if you’re flipping burgers at Burger King at 75, the cost to the employee would be $280 and the employer pick up the rest. I don’t know for sure, but I understand Walmart, Costco and Starbucks pay 100% of your premiums, so a lot of people work there part time just to get the benefits and the social interaction.
[After 65 (ish, I’m not 100% on this as I’m a few years from worrying about it!) you get things like Medicare or Medicaid (I can never remember which is which) which takes over usually, but I don’t know exactly how this works as I haven’t been through it]
I’ll pick a realistic scenario from the matrix in front of me - a family plan (husband, wife and 2 kids) where the employee is 33 years old. Under $1,000 a month total cost of insurance and likely to pay $200-$400 per month with the employer picking up the rest of the tab. This is for a completely unskilled roll - nothing fancy. Within that, you get a whole load of preventative services included (there must be 50 or 60 things depending on age and sex along with a load extra for kids) and an absolute backstop if the s
t really hits the fan. Normally $6,000 max. I know $6,000 is a lot of money, but it’s hardly a $200,000 bill! There is also a thing called a HSA - Health Savings Account. For high deductible plans such as the one I’m talking about, you put money into it each month/year (sometimes employer matched). This money is then invested and it grows tax free to be solely used on healthcare related expenses (and it’s quite a wide reaching topic).Now, the clever bit - to answer the question of jamoor. There is something called the premium tax credit. I won’t go into how it’s calculated, but it’s for people/families who don’t make a lot of money or make no money. They compare your household income to a number and if you are within certain brackets you get some or all of your health insurance premium paid for. It is set that if you are the poorest of the poor, you can purchase a mid-level health insurance policy for absolutely zero dollars and still get all the preventative care. You don’t even have to pay it out and claim it back!
If you lose your job, if you were unable to afford the COBRA option (which I believe means you’re still covered on the previous company’s insurance but you just pay the premiums), you can purchase a policy through the “marketplace” (central website that manages the plans) and use the premium tax credit to ensure your payments are affordable.
To answer pavarotti’s question about why there are so many uninsured Americans, I addressed this earlier on. If people are just going to wallow with their thumb up their ass, then yes, they will get screwed. If you’re not smart enough or willing enough to work it out for yourself, there are free advocates out there who will help you subscribe. That’s kinda the way it is in this country - you have to look out for yourself. You’re free to do whatever the f
k you want, but there’s not so much help when it does go tits up.Ok - now let’s deal with the poorest of the poor. Who has some terrible event and end up hitting their $6k out of pocket maximum. Medical providers are obliged to offer a financial aid program whereby if you do not have income or the financial means, they help by writing off some or all of this money. They do this because it’s a tax write off (as is the time and money the doctors spend manning free outreach clinics etc).
Every part of the process has free advocates available - you just have to pull your thumb out of your ass and do something about it.
As an aside, to go bankrupt due to medical bills isn’t a quick or short process - it normally takes a number of years - it’s not an instant thing!
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the US system is perfect, it isn't. However, nothing is as it seems from the outside. On balance, I prefer the US system to the UK system…because in my experience the quality of care is significantly better.
Clearly, a wall of text - good job if you got this far! Questions?!
The Moose said:
Halb said:
The Moose said:
Pretty much everyone can afford healthcare insurance.
In the UK, the US, or both?jamoor said:
Does the price increase with age?
What if you’re out of work for 6 months due to your employer going broke?
Yes it does increase with age.What if you’re out of work for 6 months due to your employer going broke?
Premium Tax Credits (I’ll expand on this further down)
WinstonWolf said:
I doubt I'd be able to, I'm up to fifteen operations and counting...
That has no impact on the cost of the premiums at all. Deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance yes, but it’s not the end of the world.Nickgnome said:
Why not post some real rates personal and company contributions. as I did earlier (1219) for my daughter and her family. Only returned in Tuesday so these are bang up to date.
The cover required can also impact the rate substantially.
Forgive me, but clearly you don’t understand the system! I can post some real rates - we’re selecting our 2020 plans right now. The monthly premium amount on it’s own is entirely useless and meaningless!The cover required can also impact the rate substantially.
Nickgnome said:
I’m told that the care however is excellent.
This you do understand!!! The care is on the whole a much higher standard than in the UK. My wife’s sister had a baby less than a month after ours. The care was significantly better here than the UK both the lead up to the birth, the birth and the post-birth care.pavarotti1980 said:
If that is the case why doesnt everyone have it? 40-45 million without it apparently
As I said in an earlier post, if you don’t have money you can still get insurance. There is no reason to end up with a $200,000 bill these days. And for the last 9 years and 9 months.gregs656 said:
To what level of cover?
It is senseless to defend the US system of healthcare. They spend a lot of money to get healthcare outcomes no better than anywhere else, often worse than other developed countries.
it's ok though because like many aspects of American life what they believe to be true (best healthcare system in the world) trumps the facts, so to speak.
My family and I get significantly better care here that we ever did back in the UK.It is senseless to defend the US system of healthcare. They spend a lot of money to get healthcare outcomes no better than anywhere else, often worse than other developed countries.
it's ok though because like many aspects of American life what they believe to be true (best healthcare system in the world) trumps the facts, so to speak.
_____
A little history lesson
Years ago (I want to say pre 2009 but don’t quote me on that date), if you were young, fit and healthy you could buy health insurance for a pittance. Girls more than boys due to pregnancy etc but if you are young, fit and healthy you could buy cover for not a lot of money. On the other hand, if you were old or had a chronic illness you were cream crackered - rates through the roof and it became unaffordable.
My understanding is that this was exactly the problem that Obamacare/Affordable Care Act set out to solve - the fact that when you’re unlikely to have an event insurance is cheap but when you are likely to have an event that premium doubles, triples and more. It was leaving a lot of the elderly and diabetics etc effectively uninsurable. My understanding was that employers were even making hiring decisions based on this - they had to offer to pay the same %age of everyone’s healthcare premium regardless of if they were a single 25 year old fit and healthy male or a family of 12 all of whom have chronic illnesses.
What Obamacare/Affordable Care Act set out to do was to essentially only make the age the determining factor. Pre-existing conditions are not a thing - by law, they are not allowed to be thing. A lot of preventative procedures by law have to be 100% covered by the policy etc.
What this ultimately meant, and why a lot of people have a problem with the ACA, was that the premiums increased overnight by a huge amount for a large portion of society. I have heard different numbers ranging from 100% to 300% increases. I guess it probably depends on how you purchased your policy previously.
I happen to have a pricing matrix for a health insurance policy for a very large US company. As an easy number to compare. There are 4 different health plans with varying different levels of cover that range from under $300 a month for an under 30 individual to under $1,400 a month for a 75+ year old individual. That’s for their cheapest plan - the plan you’d buy if you were fit and healthy with no expected procedures. The employer then contributes a percentage of this number (anywhere from 50-100%, I’ve heard 80% is normal for a single person). So if you’re flipping burgers at Burger King at 75, the cost to the employee would be $280 and the employer pick up the rest. I don’t know for sure, but I understand Walmart, Costco and Starbucks pay 100% of your premiums, so a lot of people work there part time just to get the benefits and the social interaction.
[After 65 (ish, I’m not 100% on this as I’m a few years from worrying about it!) you get things like Medicare or Medicaid (I can never remember which is which) which takes over usually, but I don’t know exactly how this works as I haven’t been through it]
I’ll pick a realistic scenario from the matrix in front of me - a family plan (husband, wife and 2 kids) where the employee is 33 years old. Under $1,000 a month total cost of insurance and likely to pay $200-$400 per month with the employer picking up the rest of the tab. This is for a completely unskilled roll - nothing fancy. Within that, you get a whole load of preventative services included (there must be 50 or 60 things depending on age and sex along with a load extra for kids) and an absolute backstop if the s
t really hits the fan. Normally $6,000 max. I know $6,000 is a lot of money, but it’s hardly a $200,000 bill! There is also a thing called a HSA - Health Savings Account. For high deductible plans such as the one I’m talking about, you put money into it each month/year (sometimes employer matched). This money is then invested and it grows tax free to be solely used on healthcare related expenses (and it’s quite a wide reaching topic).Now, the clever bit - to answer the question of jamoor. There is something called the premium tax credit. I won’t go into how it’s calculated, but it’s for people/families who don’t make a lot of money or make no money. They compare your household income to a number and if you are within certain brackets you get some or all of your health insurance premium paid for. It is set that if you are the poorest of the poor, you can purchase a mid-level health insurance policy for absolutely zero dollars and still get all the preventative care. You don’t even have to pay it out and claim it back!
If you lose your job, if you were unable to afford the COBRA option (which I believe means you’re still covered on the previous company’s insurance but you just pay the premiums), you can purchase a policy through the “marketplace” (central website that manages the plans) and use the premium tax credit to ensure your payments are affordable.
To answer pavarotti’s question about why there are so many uninsured Americans, I addressed this earlier on. If people are just going to wallow with their thumb up their ass, then yes, they will get screwed. If you’re not smart enough or willing enough to work it out for yourself, there are free advocates out there who will help you subscribe. That’s kinda the way it is in this country - you have to look out for yourself. You’re free to do whatever the f
k you want, but there’s not so much help when it does go tits up.Ok - now let’s deal with the poorest of the poor. Who has some terrible event and end up hitting their $6k out of pocket maximum. Medical providers are obliged to offer a financial aid program whereby if you do not have income or the financial means, they help by writing off some or all of this money. They do this because it’s a tax write off (as is the time and money the doctors spend manning free outreach clinics etc).
Every part of the process has free advocates available - you just have to pull your thumb out of your ass and do something about it.
As an aside, to go bankrupt due to medical bills isn’t a quick or short process - it normally takes a number of years - it’s not an instant thing!
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the US system is perfect, it isn't. However, nothing is as it seems from the outside. On balance, I prefer the US system to the UK system…because in my experience the quality of care is significantly better.
Clearly, a wall of text - good job if you got this far! Questions?!
Do you have to continuously rely on goodwill of hospitals? What about medicines? If you get a mid level health insurance policy paid for, what’s the difference between a mid level and Bella and whistles policy?
Because I work in Television my FaceBook feed is ragingly left wing liberal apart from one girl who is rabidly anti Labour. She's a working girl from the East End who has done well, nice house, kids in private etc.
Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
croyde said:
Because I work in Television my FaceBook feed is ragingly left wing liberal apart from one girl who is rabidly anti Labour. She's a working girl from the East End who has done well, nice house, kids in private etc.
Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
He doesn't know what the NHS is, it went out on live TV that showed he has no idea.Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
They keep saying it for election points.
croyde said:
Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
I wouldn't call Trump part of the left. I would not call the US ambassador the left. Yet they are the ones who said it. Corbyn, who is left, produced a document which appears, on the face of it, to agree with what Trump, not left, and the US ambassador, not left, said. There have been convoluted denials, but it does appear clear that in any trade deal with the US, certain aspects of the NHS will be expected to be part of the deal. The point, I think, is not in the purchase and supply of drugs, but the conditions, and most importantly, any restrictions, that will be demanded.
Derek Smith said:
croyde said:
Can anyone explain to me why does Trump want the NHS, would he even know what it is, and why do the Left keep saying this?
I wouldn't call Trump part of the left. I would not call the US ambassador the left. Yet they are the ones who said it. Corbyn, who is left, produced a document which appears, on the face of it, to agree with what Trump, not left, and the US ambassador, not left, said. There have been convoluted denials, but it does appear clear that in any trade deal with the US, certain aspects of the NHS will be expected to be part of the deal. The point, I think, is not in the purchase and supply of drugs, but the conditions, and most importantly, any restrictions, that will be demanded.
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