Another young driver crash,sad story, Hamble, Hampshire
Discussion
DoubleD said:
M4cruiser said:
DoubleD said:
Whos going to buy a brand new Mondeo with 70bhp?!
..^^ the parents who currently buy brand new Aygos / 108s / Citigos / Ka's etc for their children.Thoughts with family.
TTmonkey said:
Having been through trying to insure a teenager on a car recently, have to say I agree, the insurance industry is pricing teenagers into the s
tbox scale of the market.
A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.tbox scale of the market. A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
skwdenyer said:
TTmonkey said:
Having been through trying to insure a teenager on a car recently, have to say I agree, the insurance industry is pricing teenagers into the stbox scale of the market.
A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.tbox scale of the market. A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
Honda CR-Z
T6 vanman said:
skwdenyer said:
TTmonkey said:
Having been through trying to insure a teenager on a car recently, have to say I agree, the insurance industry is pricing teenagers into the stbox scale of the market.
A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.tbox scale of the market. A mini one cost me £1750 to insure my daughter on. Whilst something like an aygo would have been £800.
So we’re not talking about a Range Rover with a big engine, just a mini with a 1.4 diesel.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
Honda CR-Z
DoubleD said:
lyonspride said:
Insurance grouping is meaningless these days, it's all about statistics. If more young drivers own and crash small cars, then insurance premiums on those cars will go up. Best car for a young driver is something medium/big, with zero street cred amongst the youth.
Ive heard this a few times on here, but then ive also heard people say that they tried insuring a bigger car and it cost more than the usual corsas and fiestas?uk66fastback said:
A lot of young people drive fast in the wrong places, I did and I'm sure a lot of us did, years ago. Now we're older we just don't. Age and experience.
Motorcycles as well. Most came through it, some didn't.
Unfortunately, motorcyclists seem to be a different animal altogether. Although many youngsters have bad accidents and get maimed or killed, so, it appears, do the older, middle-aged, bikers who can finally afford a really powerful bit of kit - and those hilly, windy, country roads are just too tempting.Motorcycles as well. Most came through it, some didn't.
Derek Smith said:
I used to teach law and practice to new traffic officers, this back in the day when the Volvo 7-series had just come out.
For procedure at accidents we had an experienced traffic sergeant and the road safety officer for a part of the force area.
All drove 2-series Volvos.
Over coffee I asked them why the same marque and they all said that they'd never been to a fatal RTA where the occupants of a Volvo 2-series had been killed. They then told me of other traffic officers who drove the same car.
New traffic officers tended to drive BMWs, that sort of thing, but after attending a few RTAs, it seemed that tastes changed.
When I went on traffic I was driving a Renault Clio .. within a couple of months I swopped it for a Saab 900For procedure at accidents we had an experienced traffic sergeant and the road safety officer for a part of the force area.
All drove 2-series Volvos.
Over coffee I asked them why the same marque and they all said that they'd never been to a fatal RTA where the occupants of a Volvo 2-series had been killed. They then told me of other traffic officers who drove the same car.
New traffic officers tended to drive BMWs, that sort of thing, but after attending a few RTAs, it seemed that tastes changed.
skwdenyer said:
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
850 mini had 36bhp, 1000 had 39bhp, but the cornering then was brilliant. You kept the speed up and threw it through corners.Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
So we still had accidents, on corners, it's just the speed was lower, say 25-40mph...
Byker28i said:
skwdenyer said:
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
850 mini had 36bhp, 1000 had 39bhp, but the cornering then was brilliant. You kept the speed up and threw it through corners.Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
So we still had accidents, on corners, it's just the speed was lower, say 25-40mph...
Byker28i said:
skwdenyer said:
When I was young, one might be able to afford to insure a Fiesta 950 (45 bhp), or maybe a Mini (850 or 1000). Cars with little power & little grip.
Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
850 mini had 36bhp, 1000 had 39bhp, but the cornering then was brilliant. You kept the speed up and threw it through corners.Compared to those, even an Aygo is a rocketship - a car with such performance would have been very hard to insure 30 years ago. Modern tyres mean one can achieve *very* high cornering speeds (relative to the past). Modern safety features make one feel rather more invincible (no ABS, no airbag, no crumple zone tends to focus the mind just a tiny bit).
Of course things are relative, but I don't see a modern Aygo as being especially unsafe.
So we still had accidents, on corners, it's just the speed was lower, say 25-40mph...
Modern cars are so "easy" to drive, they are well sound proofed, power steering, good brakes etc etc. Also by the old standards an aygo or a 106 is far faster than many a full size car from back in the day.
I still have two classic cars, a mid 70's Peugeot 304 cabrio with a 1.3 engine with (when new) 75hp, compare that with a modern city car with a smaller engine but similar horsepower, it's like night and day. The Pug still has a choke, only 4 speeds and you'll be wringing it's neck at anything over 60mph. Skinny , high profile 145 tyres mean cornering at sensible speeds, and whilst the brakes are good, there's no ABS.
My other old car is a big old Mercedes W123 coupe from the early 80's, with a 2.3 petrol engine and auto box, a quite high end car in it's day, and quite modern in some respects with thing like fuel injection, central locking and crumple zones. But again I bet the aygo could give the Merc a run for it's money when it comes to performance. Cornering , the aygo will beat it hands down.
Driving older cars you are still "connected" to them, you can feel thing working ,the steering has feel, the brakes have feel, you can feel the thing understeer on a wet road at a speed where you can still do something about it. So yes, whilst older car are more dangerous when things go wrong, you can feel things going wrong at a much lower speed.
A Winner Is You said:
Without doubt modern cars are safer, but I do wonder if they install a false sense of security by being so insulated and lacking feedback.
I hear this said, but personally I don't buy it. Young drivers don't drive like tts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal. TwigtheWonderkid said:
A Winner Is You said:
Without doubt modern cars are safer, but I do wonder if they install a false sense of security by being so insulated and lacking feedback.
I hear this said, but personally I don't buy it. Young drivers don't drive like tts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal. ts to a far higher speed, so when it does go wrong the risks of injury are far higher.[quote=TwigtheWonderkidYoung drivers don't drive like tts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal.
[/quote]
Certainly the student that went into the back of my S1 at a level crossing didn't seem to care much - well until he gets his renewal premium. When I asked him why he didn't stop in time, he said there was "something wrong with the brakes"! Utter c8nt.
ts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal. [/quote]
Certainly the student that went into the back of my S1 at a level crossing didn't seem to care much - well until he gets his renewal premium. When I asked him why he didn't stop in time, he said there was "something wrong with the brakes"! Utter c8nt.
uk66fastback said:
A lot of young people drive fast in the wrong places, I did and I'm sure a lot of us did, years ago. Now we're older we just don't. Age and experience.
Motorcycles as well. Most came through it, some didn't.
This. Whenever I'm in the car with my step-lad, I want to hit the middle pedal hard. A lot. Motorcycles as well. Most came through it, some didn't.
There is no smoothness, and no anticipation, no recognition of risk. Dive into the roundabout. Accelerate up to the red light. Corner on two wheels on the housing estate. Sit in Lane 3 all day long.....
I exaggerate a bit - and he is only going to get better with experience. I'm sure I was nearly as bad....
We got Lotucub an Aygo when he passed his test, hoping that after year 1 he could drive his 1990 Rover Mini 1275.
We were quoted £2,200 for the 73BHP Mini. He ended up buying a petrol 180bhp Octavia VRS DSG and insured it for just over £1,000 - WTF?
The VRS goes like stink, I could swear it's quicker than my NA Evora to 100, ...at least it feels it.
Figure that one out?
We were quoted £2,200 for the 73BHP Mini. He ended up buying a petrol 180bhp Octavia VRS DSG and insured it for just over £1,000 - WTF?
The VRS goes like stink, I could swear it's quicker than my NA Evora to 100, ...at least it feels it.
Figure that one out?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A Winner Is You said:
Without doubt modern cars are safer, but I do wonder if they install a false sense of security by being so insulated and lacking feedback.
I hear this said, but personally I don't buy it. Young drivers don't drive like tts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal. amusingduck said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A Winner Is You said:
Without doubt modern cars are safer, but I do wonder if they install a false sense of security by being so insulated and lacking feedback.
I hear this said, but personally I don't buy it. Young drivers don't drive like tts because they think their cars are safe and they won't be hurt if they smash it up. They drive like tts because they don't think they will crash, it won't happen to them, and they are immortal. I do think we're too insulated as a nation to the horrors of a proper accident. I think kids should see what it looks like for human body to literally smeared down the road. Those images stick and I do believe have the power to moderate behaviour.
PSA's with a police officer knocking on your parents door doesn't have any impact.
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