Another young driver crash,sad story, Hamble, Hampshire

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Neonblau said:

Canute said:

I could find these numbers...

Road Fatalities Per 100,000 vehicles per year...
UK = 5.7
Sweden = 4.6

Bit of a rubbish comparison - why per 100,00 vehicles? Sweden has 4.8 million registered vehicles, pop 10 million. The UK has 32 million vehicles and pop 66.5 million. Road and traffic density will be completely different, UK 250k miles of road Sweden about 9,000.

Sweden has far more treacherous weather conditions.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

oyster said:

DoubleD said:

And yet we all drove far more dangerous cars when we were young.

And people died.

What's your point?

And people died in far greater numbers.

On threads like this, you always get the "I drove a BL MIni when I was a teenager and I didn't die" brigade. Conveniently overlooking the fact that the plenty that did die aren't around to post about it.

[Crumpet]

Derek Smith said:

I used to teach law and practice to new traffic officers, this back in the day when the Volvo 7-series had just come out.

For procedure at accidents we had an experienced traffic sergeant and the road safety officer for a part of the force area.

All drove 2-series Volvos.

Over coffee I asked them why the same marque and they all said that they'd never been to a fatal RTA where the occupants of a Volvo 2-series had been killed. They then told me of other traffic officers who drove the same car.

New traffic officers tended to drive BMWs, that sort of thing, but after attending a few RTAs, it seemed that tastes changed.

So what do the people who see accidents day-in-day-out drive these days?

I’m sure I read somewhere that no one in the U.K. has ever died in an XC90. I know the old D3/4 also had a good reputation.

A friend who used to fly police helicopters and air ambulance once told me to buy the longest car you could reasonably get away with.

[Canute]

lyonspride said:

How many hand grenade deaths?

What?

[Eric Mc]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Neonblau said:

Canute said:

I could find these numbers...

Road Fatalities Per 100,000 vehicles per year...
UK = 5.7
Sweden = 4.6

Bit of a rubbish comparison - why per 100,00 vehicles? Sweden has 4.8 million registered vehicles, pop 10 million. The UK has 32 million vehicles and pop 66.5 million. Road and traffic density will be completely different, UK 250k miles of road Sweden about 9,000.

Sweden has far more treacherous weather conditions.

And mooses. Dangerous things mooses.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Derek Smith said:

I used to teach law and practice to new traffic officers, this back in the day when the Volvo 7-series had just come out.

For procedure at accidents we had an experienced traffic sergeant and the road safety officer for a part of the force area.

All drove 2-series Volvos.

Over coffee I asked them why the same marque and they all said that they'd never been to a fatal RTA where the occupants of a Volvo 2-series had been killed. They then told me of other traffic officers who drove the same car.

New traffic officers tended to drive BMWs, that sort of thing, but after attending a few RTAs, it seemed that tastes changed.

Whilst I realise that Volvos are a very safe car, I suspect that has more to do with the demographic than the car. Plenty of young drivers are lucky enough to have a BMW or a Merc, but they wouldn't choose a Volvo. And even drivers age 60, the person who drives a Volvo is probably, by their nature, a more cautious and sensible person that the 60 y/o who buys a BMW.

Volvos attract a certain kind of person, and if I was being offered a lift, I'd opt for the driver who owned a Volvo, even if they were driving something else that day. If I was going away for a wild weekend in Amsterdam, I'd probably wouldn't want to go with the Volvo driver.

[Canute]

Eric Mc said:

And mooses. Dangerous things mooses.

Wild boar and deer also cause a fair few accidents.

I wasn't really trying to draw direct comparisons between the UK and Sweden, the driving is totally different here. I was just pointing out the youngsters have a possibly more sensible entry into their driving life here by being limited in speed and the number of passengers they can carry. The tougher driving test also probably helps.

[Jasey_]

poo at Paul's said:

Cars are safer than they have ever been, small cars now are likely safer than Mondeos of 10 years ago. But certainly a lot safer than small cars of 20 or 30 years ago.
People have been getting killed in cars for years and years, young and old. There are 5 people a day who go out and about their daily business and don't come home . who knows the cause, but it is not easy to die in a modern car driving sensibly at sensible speeds for the conditions and without distractions. It can happened, catastrophic failure, but most likely some one was driving like a twonk and someone died. Like thousands before. Sad, but it happens.

Always remember 5th gear's test of modern small (Renault Modus) v old big (Volvo Estate)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

[amusingduck]

Eric Mc said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Neonblau said:

Canute said:

I could find these numbers...

Road Fatalities Per 100,000 vehicles per year...
UK = 5.7
Sweden = 4.6

Bit of a rubbish comparison - why per 100,00 vehicles? Sweden has 4.8 million registered vehicles, pop 10 million. The UK has 32 million vehicles and pop 66.5 million. Road and traffic density will be completely different, UK 250k miles of road Sweden about 9,000.

Sweden has far more treacherous weather conditions.

And mooses. Dangerous things mooses.

Sweden/UK are pretty much the same once you measure properly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

Sweden = 3.3 deaths per billion km
UK = 3.4

[PistonBroker]

As already said, I expect the Aygo is safer than the 205 I had as my first car, no matter how much of a shock it is to me jumping out of our SUV and into the sister-in-law's one.

My 13yo already knows she wants a MINI and that works for me - I'd want them to be in something just that bit bigger and more solid - MINI, Polo, Fabia, etc. The Aygos, Ups etc of this world all seem just that bit flimsier and have less crumple zone than I'd like.

There's a private school nextdoor to us and I walk the dog up the road to their 6th Form most mornings. I marvel at some of the crappy cars these people who have spent a fortune on their kids' education then decide to put their kids in at 17.

[Yertis]

PistonBroker said:

There's a private school nextdoor to us and I walk the dog up the road to their 6th Form most mornings. I marvel at some of the crappy cars these people who have spent a fortune on their kids' education then decide to put their kids in at 17.

Speaking from personal experience, by the time they get to that age it's all they can afford.

[Dixy]

The answer is better education, this charity seem to prove it.
https://u17ccctrust.org/

[M4cruiser]

Supercilious Sid said:

M4cruiser said:

Sadly another young person has died on our roads (last Thursday, 5th December 2019).

She was 18 years old, and a passenger in a Toyota Aygo. The article doesn't say (yet) the age of the driver and other passengers, but local knowledge is saying they were all young people in the car.

.....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-50...

Our thoughts are with her friends and family. A difficult time for them.

When immature lads get behind the wheel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-26...

Both these earlier cases you have added are with powerful cars and with drink/drugs playing a part.

My original point about the cars is that low-power / low insurance cars tend to be the ones with nothing to absorb the g-forces, like the Up/Citigo/Mii/108/C1/Aygo.

A souped-up Civic or an RX8 (in those other cases) is not a low-power car, and the extra speed will offset the extra crumple zone.

Something like a 70bhp Mondeo or Focus should be on offer for young people. At the moment the bigger crumple zones come with more power, i.e. 120bhp in the Fords. We all know that such a poor 0-60 would get slated by the journalists, just as the 1.3 Cortinas and Sierras used to be. But it would be for a specific market, and if you want a faster one you can buy the 120bhp version (or more).

The Modus v Volvo wasn't quite the right test due to the age difference in the designs. A modern design will usually beat an older one.

[DoubleD]

Whos going to buy a brand new Mondeo with 70bhp?!

[Esceptico]

DoubleD said:

And yet we all drove far more dangerous cars when we were young.

Yes and I knew a few people that got killed driving them so what is your argument?

[ChocolateFrog]

lyonspride said:

Canute said:

DoubleD said:

How many people are killed in Sweden compared to the UK?

I could find these numbers...

Road Fatalities Per 100,000 vehicles per year...
UK = 5.7
Sweden = 4.6

How many hand grenade deaths?

Exactly what I was thinking

Malmo providing an added spice to the commute.

[ChocolateFrog]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

oyster said:

DoubleD said:

And yet we all drove far more dangerous cars when we were young.

And people died.

What's your point?

And people died in far greater numbers.

On threads like this, you always get the "I drove a BL MIni when I was a teenager and I didn't die" brigade. Conveniently overlooking the fact that the plenty that did die aren't around to post about it.

I drove a Mini and didn't die.

I did used to look at the A pillars and think "if I crash, I'm fked"

[M4cruiser]

M4cruiser said:

Sadly another young person has died on our roads (last Thursday, 5th December 2019).

She was 18 years old, and a passenger in a Toyota Aygo. The article doesn't say (yet) the age of the driver and other passengers, but local knowledge is saying they were all young people in the car.
....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-50...

A small amount of further information has been released:

"Hampshire police is investigating the crash on School Lane, which happened shortly before 21:00 GMT.

The driver of the car, a woman aged 18, and two other passengers, both 17-year-old girls, were taken to hospital.

Police did not have details on their injuries."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-50...

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2019-12-10/tribu...

[A Winner Is You]

ChocolateFrog said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

oyster said:

DoubleD said:

And yet we all drove far more dangerous cars when we were young.

And people died.

What's your point?

And people died in far greater numbers.

On threads like this, you always get the "I drove a BL MIni when I was a teenager and I didn't die" brigade. Conveniently overlooking the fact that the plenty that did die aren't around to post about it.

I drove a Mini and didn't die.

I did used to look at the A pillars and think "if I crash, I'm fked"

Without doubt modern cars are safer, but I do wonder if they install a false sense of security by being so insulated and lacking feedback. Although on the subject of A pillars, the tradeoff for being stronger is much poorer visibility.

[M4cruiser]

DoubleD said:

Whos going to buy a brand new Mondeo with 70bhp?!

..^^ the parents who currently buy brand new Aygos / 108s / Citigos / Ka's etc for their children.