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Agammemnon

1,628 posts

57 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
As I understand, it takes 10k years minimum for something super simple to change at the biological level, and much longer for the kind of complex brain differentiation being discussed?
I believe that Darwinism can act faster than that in a 'forced' societal environment. If only the smart ones survive (or even are sufficiently prosperous) to breed then the next generation will on average be smarter. The film idiocracy shows the opposite effect if we subsidise the dumb ones to breed.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Why do I get the feeling that enforced eugenics wouldn't trouble many people on here too much?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
I believe that Darwinism can act faster than that in a 'forced' societal environment. If only the smart ones survive (or even are sufficiently prosperous) to breed then the next generation will on average be smarter. The film idiocracy shows the opposite effect if we subsidise the dumb ones to breed.
Is that not cultural transmission, different to the kind of genetic/physical evolution being discussed. I don't think race can factor in that?

Pretty sure idiocracy isn't accurate!

Cultural transmission doesn't need even a generation to evolve?


Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 18th February 15:32

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

57 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
Is that not cultural transmission, different to the kind of genetic evolution being discussed.

Cultural transmission doesn't need a generation or even a one night stand to evolve.
It might well be cultural transmission but surely what matters is how/what people are now rather than the route that got them there.

As for idiocracy, are you entirely sure? smile

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Sambucket said:
As I understand, it takes 10k years minimum for something super simple to change at the biological level, and much longer for the kind of complex brain differentiation being discussed?
It doesn't take that long for dogs to change if they are bred selectively.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
Why do I get the feeling that enforced eugenics wouldn't trouble many people on here too much?
Depends on what you mean by 'enforced eugenics'. If it involved using CRISPR (or a better version of it) to improve a childs life chances if they have genetically disadvantaged parent(s) then why not?

Roofless Toothless

5,615 posts

131 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
R Mutt said:
Surely there are unarguable traits we can all accept vary by race and stop arguing, instead focusing on how absurd it is that they can't be discussed without discomfort.

I guess there is a racist component here where people tend to concentrate on traits which suggest superiority such as IQ, but then European traits are deemed by some to be Western ideals unnaturally enforced upon others, like straight hair.
Well, I won't accept that, for one.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Castrol for a knave

4,640 posts

90 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
Sambucket said:
As I understand, it takes 10k years minimum for something super simple to change at the biological level, and much longer for the kind of complex brain differentiation being discussed?
It doesn't take that long for dogs to change if they are bred selectively.
Indeed, but not even in Doncaster do they get 2 year olds pregnant....

bitchstewie

50,813 posts

209 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
Why do I get the feeling that enforced eugenics wouldn't trouble many people on here too much?
Quite.

I often play a little game which is to swap around names and parties.

"A special advisor to Jeremy Corbyn called into question whether Jews have lower IQs than other races."

I'm sure we'd see the same understanding response about how he was misquoted out of context and he might have been onto something anyway.

Christ.

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

57 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Roofless Toothless said:
R Mutt said:
Surely there are unarguable traits we can all accept vary by race and stop arguing, instead focusing on how absurd it is that they can't be discussed without discomfort.

I guess there is a racist component here where people tend to concentrate on traits which suggest superiority such as IQ, but then European traits are deemed by some to be Western ideals unnaturally enforced upon others, like straight hair.
Well, I won't accept that, for one.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
The early antimalarial drugs had adverse effects on blacks but not so much on whites.
Blacks are less able to handle stupidly low temperatures but better at handling high ones.
Orientals have lower tolerance for alcohol.

Accept that there are differences.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
TTwiggy said:
Why do I get the feeling that enforced eugenics wouldn't trouble many people on here too much?
Quite.

I often play a little game which is to swap around names and parties.

"A special advisor to Jeremy Corbyn called into question whether Jews have lower IQs than other races."

I'm sure we'd see the same understanding response about how he was misquoted out of context and he might have been onto something anyway.

Christ.
I have the feeling that if the subject of the last few pages of debate hadn't been revealed as such a committed god-botherer he'd be getting even more support.

Roofless Toothless

5,615 posts

131 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
The early antimalarial drugs had adverse effects on blacks but not so much on whites.
Blacks are less able to handle stupidly low temperatures but better at handling high ones.
Orientals have lower tolerance for alcohol.

Accept that there are differences.
In that case, my wife is Chinese.

There is more diversity within races than there is between them.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/topics/...



Agammemnon

1,628 posts

57 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Roofless Toothless said:
There is more diversity within races than there is between them.
Put another way- imagine a group of Jamaicans & a group of Scottish gingers together on a hot sunny beach- will they fare equally?

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
Put another way- imagine a group of Jamaicans & a group of Scottish gingers together on a hot sunny beach- will they fare equally?
Spanish people and Norwegians are both 'white'. Would they fare equally as well?

Agammemnon

1,628 posts

57 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
Spanish people and Norwegians are both 'white'. Would they fare equally as well?
No they wouldn't- they are genetically different, adapted to different environments.

DeepEnd

4,240 posts

65 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
TTwiggy said:
Why do I get the feeling that enforced eugenics wouldn't trouble many people on here too much?
Quite.

I often play a little game which is to swap around names and parties.

"A special advisor to Jeremy Corbyn called into question whether Jews have lower IQs than other races."

I'm sure we'd see the same understanding response about how he was misquoted out of context and he might have been onto something anyway.

Christ.
fking bingo! rofl

Murph, it’s clear what he thinks from the questions. And predictably the one you thought was “interesting” is the one I suggested “surely not that one”.

It’s a well worn technique favoured by Farage and the like, phrase a question that superficially seems OK to cover a darker intention.

His awful views are all too evident and his spiel is designed to reel in the weak minded.

JagLover

42,268 posts

234 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
Agammemnon said:
Sambucket said:
As I understand, it takes 10k years minimum for something super simple to change at the biological level, and much longer for the kind of complex brain differentiation being discussed?
I believe that Darwinism can act faster than that in a 'forced' societal environment. If only the smart ones survive (or even are sufficiently prosperous) to breed then the next generation will on average be smarter. The film idiocracy shows the opposite effect if we subsidise the dumb ones to breed.
Yes not at all sure where 10,000 years came from. The spreading of pale skin to most of Europe (except Scandinavia where it was already present) from the near east happened fairly rapidly as did the ability to process dairy.

R Mutt

5,882 posts

71 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
TTwiggy said:
Agammemnon said:
Put another way- imagine a group of Jamaicans & a group of Scottish gingers together on a hot sunny beach- will they fare equally?
Spanish people and Norwegians are both 'white'. Would they fare equally as well?
Well there are differences among non-white people too but I'm not sure anyone is actually arguing that the guy was making factually correct statements, rather that there are differences and while none are being used as far as I can see to indicate negative traits for the purpose of devaluing an particular group, it is problematic to discuss.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
R Mutt said:
Well there are differences among non-white people too but I'm not sure anyone is actually arguing that the guy was making factually correct statements, rather that there are differences and while none are being used as far as I can see to indicate negative traits for the purpose of devaluing an particular group, it is problematic to discuss.
How is it not denigrating or devaluing one group (ooh, I wonder which one will get denigrated!?) to suggest that black people have lower IQs?

Edit: What next - the scientific search for 'natural rhythm'?

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
I wonder if it will put off other people from working with Cummings or will their different ‘ways of thinking’ . . . not make them think about it.

This bloke is famous now and maybe not for the best reasons.

It seems clear that everyone Cummings has declared war on will be our to get him but as Dom is (still) Boris’s boy, they’re going for Cummings’ new employees instead.