2020 Retailers in trouble thread

2020 Retailers in trouble thread

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Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.




hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Gecko1978 said:
Pret are heavily over expanded. In the City of London you can practically see another when standing outside one. They bought EAT for example and converted those stores to Pret even when near an existing Pret.

Pret appeared on the delivery apps recently- surely can't be much demand for a cold sandwich delivery on Deliveroo when you can order a hot grilled wrap...

They need workers back in offices asap.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Just goes to show how much money is effectively thrown away on so many discretionary items.

steveo3002

10,493 posts

173 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.
plus paying a garage for parts and repairs needed for their commute , maybe replacing the car every few years cus its worn out

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
The argument for accepting covid risks as a nation and just going back to normal is a strong one.

Just make a law saying anyone old/fat/vulnerable has the legal right to work from home for one year (but can be sacked for usual reasons such as low performance). And anyone who coughs once is instantly carted out of the office biggrin

People can choose to wear masks, gloves and bathe in sanitiser. Job done.

menousername

2,106 posts

141 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Some of those I had already stopped long ago due to costs.

A few nights out here and there for drinks usually resulted in an appalling wait in a grotty taxi waiting room at the station at midnight because they never let you book a cab it was first come first serve. As train fares continued to rise it was not worth it for what were average nights out at best, so I reduced the nights out and switched to meal and maybe one glass of wine rather than drinks so that I could drive home. Once in that habit even the arrival of Uber could not tempt me.

Then the coffees, sandwiches, breakfasts etc all now brought in from home. It can save you anything from £500 to a few £K easily per year. Simply to offset the ever increasing cost of commuting to work. Trouble is once you are in the routine its almost a chore not preparing your own lunch.

They are going to need to do something pretty drastic with commuting expenses among others - if they want people, assuming WFH does dry up, to go back to spending big.










survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Robertj21a said:
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Just goes to show how much money is effectively thrown away on so many discretionary items.
Depends on your outlook I guess. For me a lot of that stuff is what makes life enjoyable. Sitting at home all the time staring at a screen gets depressing after a while. Meeting for lunch/coffee/beers etc changes the dynamic of a relationship, both with friends and colleagues.

Besides, that money being thrown away is what keeps other areas of the economy functioning.

Frimley111R

15,535 posts

233 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
menousername said:
Some of those I had already stopped long ago due to costs.

A few nights out here and there for drinks usually resulted in an appalling wait in a grotty taxi waiting room at the station at midnight because they never let you book a cab it was first come first serve. As train fares continued to rise it was not worth it for what were average nights out at best, so I reduced the nights out and switched to meal and maybe one glass of wine rather than drinks so that I could drive home. Once in that habit even the arrival of Uber could not tempt me.

Then the coffees, sandwiches, breakfasts etc all now brought in from home. It can save you anything from £500 to a few £K easily per year. Simply to offset the ever increasing cost of commuting to work. Trouble is once you are in the routine its almost a chore not preparing your own lunch.
You may have done this but hundreds of thousands of others don't though

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
menousername said:
Some of those I had already stopped long ago due to costs.

A few nights out here and there for drinks usually resulted in an appalling wait in a grotty taxi waiting room at the station at midnight because they never let you book a cab it was first come first serve. As train fares continued to rise it was not worth it for what were average nights out at best, so I reduced the nights out and switched to meal and maybe one glass of wine rather than drinks so that I could drive home. Once in that habit even the arrival of Uber could not tempt me.

Then the coffees, sandwiches, breakfasts etc all now brought in from home. It can save you anything from £500 to a few £K easily per year. Simply to offset the ever increasing cost of commuting to work. Trouble is once you are in the routine its almost a chore not preparing your own lunch.
You may have done this but hundreds of thousands of others don't though
Which then gets to the other potentially bad side of things if enough people do the above then the knock on impact of consumers or businesses that trade with yours may simply not be viable leading to your own job being unrequited/not viable.

It’s frightening and should be to any and everyone. No one is immune and unlike before it’s not like you could say ah it’s ok I’ll clean toilets be a postman store assistant taxi driver delivery driver for grocery - why? As the list of people already wanting those jobs is vast.


IMHO changing cars/upgrading now / spending on those nice to haves is bold and if things go wrong could be a decision that costs you your house.
Then again I’m hopefully completely wrong and it will all be fine - I’d take that on the chin every day.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
menousername said:
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Some of those I had already stopped long ago due to costs.

A few nights out here and there for drinks usually resulted in an appalling wait in a grotty taxi waiting room at the station at midnight because they never let you book a cab it was first come first serve. As train fares continued to rise it was not worth it for what were average nights out at best, so I reduced the nights out and switched to meal and maybe one glass of wine rather than drinks so that I could drive home. Once in that habit even the arrival of Uber could not tempt me.

Then the coffees, sandwiches, breakfasts etc all now brought in from home. It can save you anything from £500 to a few £K easily per year. Simply to offset the ever increasing cost of commuting to work. Trouble is once you are in the routine its almost a chore not preparing your own lunch.

They are going to need to do something pretty drastic with commuting expenses among others - if they want people, assuming WFH does dry up, to go back to spending big.
I stopped doing the majority of those things a long time ago, when you work out the cost compared to what you are getting for your money it is a no brainer. I work with people who constantly moan about having no money yet they pay for lunch every day, spend £100 on breakfast and lunches at the weekend, spend £120 a month on a cleaner, £100 a month on Sky TV, have a company car rather than taking the allowance. These things alone would be costing around £1000 a month.

The thing is once you stop doing these things and realise how much money you are saving you are unlikely to ever go back to spending on them again. I am sure working from home has been a revelation for a lot of people and they can't believe how much money they wasted each month.

If this is the case then the economy is going to be pretty decimated, we can already see it with the number of casual dining chains going into meltdown.

I am pretty sure the initial excitement of shops and pubs being open is going to wear off very quickly and they not be getting enough revenue to survive.

rover 623gsi

5,230 posts

160 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Gecko1978 said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Yep, that is pretty much me - and throw in a work-related overnight stay about once a month. Multiply by many thousands (millions?) up and down the country and it's a recipe for job losses on a Biblical scale. Sure some of those expenditures were not always totally necessary but without them life cab be pretty dull (as we're finding out).

jammy-git

29,775 posts

211 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
survivalist said:
Robertj21a said:
Welshbeef said:
Let’s take an individual who normally works in an office which is based in a town /village /city. They are able to WFH.

If they were going to the office they would
1. Buy fuel /train ticket /bus ticket
2. Parking costs
3. Office attire maybe new shirts shoes every 6 months.
4. Maybe a coffee on the way in.
5. Lunch snacks stroll round town buying the odd thing /unrequited purchases.
6. Maybe after work drinks every now and again
7. Grab a take away.
8. Possible taxis now and again.
9. I often pass holiday shops and outdoor pursuit shops and pop in browse ditto clothes shops and hairdressers now none.
10. Maybe a pub/pizza/etc lunch with the boss/team/subordinate.
11. Maybe lunch with a friend or coffee and cake.

Now stop ALL of the above spend. Instead increase weekly grocery spend a tiny tiny bit more electric cost at home. You’ll be wearing out non work clothes but no issue I wearing some rather Tatty kit/ replacing clothes every as and when required. Multiply that one individual by everyone who can work at home is a HUGE problem.

Food/grocery games hobby kit house decoration gardening trips out.
Just goes to show how much money is effectively thrown away on so many discretionary items.
Depends on your outlook I guess. For me a lot of that stuff is what makes life enjoyable. Sitting at home all the time staring at a screen gets depressing after a while. Meeting for lunch/coffee/beers etc changes the dynamic of a relationship, both with friends and colleagues.

Besides, that money being thrown away is what keeps other areas of the economy functioning.
I imagine there is a broad spectrum of people - I'd say probably 40-50% of people will want to go back to their pre-lockdown life. They enjoy the social aspects of office work and like you, enjoy the odd discretionary spend here and there, and if you have the disposable income, why not?! I'd say another 20-30% will want a bit of both, part time working from the office to get the above enjoyment and a couple of days WFH to save a bit of money and enjoy a slightly better work/life balance. Then the remainder will have decided to completely change their lifestyle. I personally know of several people that have, or are in the process of, moving to Kent coastal towns and out of the city because they can either WFH full time now or have been made redundant and want to enjoy a slightly slower pace of life.

Either way, I'd say there is a significant proportion of people that will no longer be commuting into big town and cities and working from an office 5+ days a week any more.

Frimley111R

15,535 posts

233 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
It's a guess but I doubt many would want to work 5 days from the office if they do not have to. For most, going in 2-3 days and WFH gives them the best of both worlds.

Robertj21a

16,475 posts

104 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
menousername said:
Some of those I had already stopped long ago due to costs.

A few nights out here and there for drinks usually resulted in an appalling wait in a grotty taxi waiting room at the station at midnight because they never let you book a cab it was first come first serve. As train fares continued to rise it was not worth it for what were average nights out at best, so I reduced the nights out and switched to meal and maybe one glass of wine rather than drinks so that I could drive home. Once in that habit even the arrival of Uber could not tempt me.

Then the coffees, sandwiches, breakfasts etc all now brought in from home. It can save you anything from £500 to a few £K easily per year. Simply to offset the ever increasing cost of commuting to work. Trouble is once you are in the routine its almost a chore not preparing your own lunch.

They are going to need to do something pretty drastic with commuting expenses among others - if they want people, assuming WFH does dry up, to go back to spending big.
WFH won't now dry up, just reduce a bit most probably. So many have realised the massive benefits that they're not going back to regular commuting.

fiatpower

3,005 posts

170 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Frimley111R said:
It's a guess but I doubt many would want to work 5 days from the office if they do not have to. For most, going in 2-3 days and WFH gives them the best of both worlds.
That would be ideal for me. I work in a job where I have to be onsite but i'm tempted to find something different so I can work from home with a day or 2 in the office.

Crippo

1,180 posts

219 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Footfall was down 56% on Super Saturday.
I’m not surprised, shopping is an experience and when the experience is queuing to get into every shop, then not allowed to try clothes on, not being able to sit down for a coffee, served by the Mujahudeen in face masks and generally bossed about by store Staff, one might think, never again!

jammy-git

29,775 posts

211 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Crippo said:
Footfall was down 56% on Super Saturday.
I’m not surprised, shopping is an experience and when the experience is queuing to get into every shop, then not allowed to try clothes on, not being able to sit down for a coffee, served by the Mujahudeen in face masks and generally bossed about by store Staff, one might think, never again!
I think a lot of people are showing themselves to be drama queens.

joshcowin

6,775 posts

175 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
Crippo said:
Footfall was down 56% on Super Saturday.
I’m not surprised, shopping is an experience and when the experience is queuing to get into every shop, then not allowed to try clothes on, not being able to sit down for a coffee, served by the Mujahudeen in face masks and generally bossed about by store Staff, one might think, never again!
I think a lot of people are showing themselves to be drama queens.
Completely, shopping is fine, yes its different but if you actually consider the workers and other shoppers it all makes sense and is easy to stick to!


stu67

804 posts

187 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
Not surprised that the high street is screwed if my trip out Saturday is anything to go by.

Only went out Saturday to buy a new pair of motorcycle boots at the local bike clothing store. Grabbed at front door after having to ring bell to get in, put on face mask, sanitise hands, lead upstairs to be told that the boots that they said were in stock weren't actually in stock and would take 2 weeks to get in although they have similar? all explained in a conversation through steamed up glasses and facemasks.

Went home, ordered on line the ones I wanted, arrived the next day £15 cheaper. Won't be repeating any shopping trips until it has all gone away, all terribly depressing and I feel for these smaller stores but I can't see them surviving without a competitive on line portal.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Monday 6th July 2020
quotequote all
If this shopping style continues then late Autumn Winter and early spring will be horrific. Standing in a queue getting saturated possibly with bags of shopping from a previous store isn’t fun.

Those moving out of the city to say Kent - problem is who are you selling your current pad to?
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