2020 Retailers in trouble thread

[Robertj21a]

Joey Deacon said:

Pizza Express to close 75 stores

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/12141172/pizza-expr...

I suspect one of these will be the Surbiton branch as it looks like it is never going to open again.

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

[snuffy]

kev1974 said:

Pizza Express was in trouble pre-Covid. Handy thing to blame it on.

That's true. Oddly it's just the same with people; someone just about to peg out of cancer or because they are 110 and along comes covid and finishes them off.

[jakesmith]

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

[Cold]

London's Southbank Centre complex has said that 400 jobs are at risk. This represents about two thirds of their staff. (No, I didn't know they employed that many people either.)

[i4got]

jakesmith said:

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

Its not £13 quid though is it?

meal for 2 - Shared portion of garlic doughballs , two pizzas , two glasses of wine and a slice of tiramisu each. - £60 plus tip

add in a couple of kids and it's easily over £100.

You talk about similar quality comparisons - I consider it to be fast food crap quality served up to deluded people who think its better than that , so McDonalds/Burger King price points would be an appropriate comparison

When you can get Michelin star lunch deals for 25 to 40 quid a head I think Pizza Express has had its day

[Robertj21a]

jakesmith said:

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

£13 for a pizza that costs about £1-2 to produce. Of course it's a stupid price that everyone can see through. Even then their profits come from all the other overpriced extras and drinks.
I have no problem with paying for the facilities, ambience and good service - but this is just a basic pizza joint, like many others.

[anonymous-user]

i4got said:

jakesmith said:

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

Its not £13 quid though is it?

meal for 2 - Shared portion of garlic doughballs , two pizzas , two glasses of wine and a slice of tiramisu each. - £60 plus tip

add in a couple of kids and it's easily over £100.

You talk about similar quality comparisons - I consider it to be fast food crap quality served up to deluded people who think its better than that , so McDonalds/Burger King price points would be an appropriate comparison

When you can get Michelin star lunch deals for 25 to 40 quid a head I think Pizza Express has had its day

This is the problem. go to somewhere like Cote and they also add a 12.5% service charge on top. People say a main course is only £15, but before you know it you have spent £80 or £90 a couple for some average food and still leave feeling hungry.

For an even bigger rip off you can easily spend £150 a couple on what is essentially steak and chips at somewhere like Hawksmoor once you add a dessert, a drink or two and the 12.5% service charge.

I know this is Pistonheads and £150 is just small change as part of the £1500 for a good night out in London, but I often wonder do normal people think this is good value?

Does someone who takes home £100 a day take his family out to Pizza express, spend £100 and think "that was great value" or do they think "I worked all day to pay for what is essentially heated up pizza"

[Robertj21a]

Joey Deacon said:

i4got said:

jakesmith said:

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

Its not £13 quid though is it?

meal for 2 - Shared portion of garlic doughballs , two pizzas , two glasses of wine and a slice of tiramisu each. - £60 plus tip

add in a couple of kids and it's easily over £100.

You talk about similar quality comparisons - I consider it to be fast food crap quality served up to deluded people who think its better than that , so McDonalds/Burger King price points would be an appropriate comparison

When you can get Michelin star lunch deals for 25 to 40 quid a head I think Pizza Express has had its day

This is the problem. go to somewhere like Cote and they also add a 12.5% service charge on top. People say a main course is only £15, but before you know it you have spent £80 or £90 a couple for some average food and still leave feeling hungry.

For an even bigger rip off you can easily spend £150 a couple on what is essentially steak and chips at somewhere like Hawksmoor once you add a dessert, a drink or two and the 12.5% service charge.

I know this is Pistonheads and £150 is just small change as part of the £1500 for a good night out in London, but I often wonder do normal people think this is good value?

Does someone who takes home £100 a day take his family out to Pizza express, spend £100 and think "that was great value" or do they think "I worked all day to pay for what is essentially heated up pizza"

So very true. Interesting to see that some just still don't get it and remain in denial.

[Louis Balfour]

Robertj21a said:

jakesmith said:

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

£13 for a pizza that costs about £1-2 to produce. Of course it's a stupid price that everyone can see through. Even then their profits come from all the other overpriced extras and drinks.
I have no problem with paying for the facilities, ambience and good service - but this is just a basic pizza joint, like many others.

Nah, I'd say that Pizza Express is generally better than other pizza chains.

IIRC the reason they are in trouble has more to do with investors rinsing them.

[Thankyou4calling]

I’d say Flatiron is excellent value.

Very limited menu
Very visible pricing

Two can eat a good steak meal including dessert and sides for £40.

Service is sharp. I’m a fan and frequent patron.

Not fine dining but well above par.

[BrabusMog]

It is true that they heat up pizza at Pizza Express. That's after they've made it from scratch from dough and topped it. Pizza Express is fine if you have a voucher. They were getting stitched up by their investors before Covid, I believe they have a very large interest payment looming.

[ant1973]

i4got said:

jakesmith said:

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

Its not £13 quid though is it?

meal for 2 - Shared portion of garlic doughballs , two pizzas , two glasses of wine and a slice of tiramisu each. - £60 plus tip

add in a couple of kids and it's easily over £100.

You talk about similar quality comparisons - I consider it to be fast food crap quality served up to deluded people who think its better than that , so McDonalds/Burger King price points would be an appropriate comparison

When you can get Michelin star lunch deals for 25 to 40 quid a head I think Pizza Express has had its day

Eating out is an occasional treat. Give me the family run, local restaurant any day of the week over the chains. It's not, however, news that gross margin on food is huge. It needs to be because the fixed costs are also suitably enormous. Look at the net margins of most chains and stellar they are not. The pizza you can make for a couple of £ is not a fair comparison with one made at PE for £13. Even a McD family sit in meal is not much change out of £30-40 by the time you have finished.

[eccles]

Most people see things like burgers and pizzas as cheap fast foods and, it would seem, don't like paying over the odds for it. Look at how many 'gourmet' burger chains have gone bust in recent years.
Tart it up however you want, it's still 'just' a burger or pizza.

[Anonymous-poster]

Robertj21a said:

£13 for a pizza that costs about £1-2 to produce. Of course it's a stupid price that everyone can see through. Even then their profits come from all the other overpriced extras and drinks.
I have no problem with paying for the facilities, ambience and good service - but this is just a basic pizza joint, like many others.

The ingredients may be £1-2 but there might be a few other costs to factor in, that’s just a guess of course!

[Gweeds]

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Pizza Express was an intrinsically solid business with a good offering and loyal base. Then private equity got involved, over-expanded and loaded it with debt. As fking usual.

[jakesmith]

Robertj21a said:

jakesmith said:

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

£13 for a pizza that costs about £1-2 to produce. Of course it's a stupid price that everyone can see through. Even then their profits come from all the other overpriced extras and drinks.
I have no problem with paying for the facilities, ambience and good service - but this is just a basic pizza joint, like many others.

Really they should sell it at cost for your benefit shouldn't they.
As per my previous comment, please do show me an equivalent restaurant offering 3 courses for £15 that you think represents better value.

[Robertj21a]

jakesmith said:

Robertj21a said:

jakesmith said:

Robertj21a said:

Another one trying to sell basic food at silly prices.

Another one unable to discern different levels of food & service offerings or perhaps someone who thinks restaurants should sell food at supermarket prices and make no profit, thus making a comment that makes them look silly.

A pizza at Pizza Express is about £13 not including the very frequent offers they do such as 3 courses for £15. Please tell me what you would consider to be the correct price if that is too much for you, and provide a web link to somewhere with an equivalent offering & quality level for a significant pricepoint lower for me to have a good chuckle at.

£13 for a pizza that costs about £1-2 to produce. Of course it's a stupid price that everyone can see through. Even then their profits come from all the other overpriced extras and drinks.
I have no problem with paying for the facilities, ambience and good service - but this is just a basic pizza joint, like many others.

Really they should sell it at cost for your benefit shouldn't they.
As per my previous comment, please do show me an equivalent restaurant offering 3 courses for £15 that you think represents better value.

Who mentioned an equivalent with better value ?. It's simply overpriced for what is really very cheap, basic, food - they all are, or were when they thought they could get away with it.
Do you really believe that most people go in and pays just £15 ?

[anonymous-user]

Robertj21a said:

So very true. Interesting to see that some just still don't get it and remain in denial.

I like Pizza Express, the food is decent and having a young family it's an ideal place to take them.

[SydneyBridge]

From bbc

Most off-putting of all, of course, is the enormous debt number. The interest on that £1.1bn is costing the company £93m a year, which wiped out all its operating profit last year - and then some.

In fact, the debt payments have pushed Pizza Express into the red for the last two years with a loss of £55m last year alone.

[jammy-git]

ant1973 said:

Eating out is an occasional treat. Give me the family run, local restaurant any day of the week over the chains. It's not, however, news that gross margin on food is huge. It needs to be because the fixed costs are also suitably enormous. Look at the net margins of most chains and stellar they are not. The pizza you can make for a couple of £ is not a fair comparison with one made at PE for £13. Even a McD family sit in meal is not much change out of £30-40 by the time you have finished.

What makes you think you're getting better quality at a local family run joint? They're likely to be buying food and drink at a higher cost price than the chain whilst still trying to compete somewhat with the chain on price, so they're even more likely to be trying to cut corners.