Van driver guilty of wounding PC

Van driver guilty of wounding PC

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anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
She's quoting snippets of the Judge's sentencing remarks - presumably in an attempt to suggest that PC Outten was using excessive force.

Unfortunately for her the Judge really didn't see it that way - hence a 16 year sentence.

Silly bint.
She's a moron who seemingly gets airtime.

I guess she'll always provide the counter-argument even when it's idiotic.

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
La Liga said:
Red 4 said:
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
She's quoting snippets of the Judge's sentencing remarks - presumably in an attempt to suggest that PC Outten was using excessive force.

Unfortunately for her the Judge really didn't see it that way - hence a 16 year sentence.

Silly bint.
She's a moron who seemingly gets airtime.

I guess she'll always provide the counter-argument even when it's idiotic.
Karna has a habit of eventually catching up with these sorts of idiots.

dandarez

13,246 posts

282 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Shaw Tarse said:
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...

Possibly fake/deleted?
The problem here is not that she's a fruitloop. She is.
The problem is many people don't read the full news and take it in passing, and sadly, very sadly, will believe the crap she has written.

Then along come a bunch of 'experts' who say the problem is the 'instrument' used, so let's ban them! It was a old long rusty machete.
Or if not ban them, how about a money making opportunity?

One knife company has already got a load of 'free' airplay recently with their 'new' kitchen knives with ...no pointed ends.
You couldn't make it up.

Asked if these would sell on the High St and online the company guy said,
'Oh yes, we've had tons of interest from the public who want, need, to buy these types of knives.
Pointed knives are dangerous!

Tell that to the relatives and kids of the poor fker up North, Peter Duncan, who was minding his own business and was stabbed for no reason whatsoever, just the once, with a 'screwdriver' and died on the spot.

In the case of this van driver, had the cop's taser not worked the second time, I think said culprit would have been facing a murder charge.
Who'd be a rank and file copper today, eh?

We've lost the plot in this country.
Problems, stabbings, murders arise almost daily, but nobody cares anymore. Nobody fixes anything.
Years ago if a problem arose, the first thing you did was to fix it. If you didn't, the problem got worse. It's too simple for today's brains!

To think as a 10 yr old I walked with my pals with 6-8 inch Bowie knives dangling in sheaves on the belts holding up our short trousers. And most of us bought them ourselves with paper round money. From gunshops! laugh It's so funny when you tell it to today's generation they think you're making it up!

Different times. And brought up differently!

Life goes on, eh?

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Digga said:
La Liga said:
Red 4 said:
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
She's quoting snippets of the Judge's sentencing remarks - presumably in an attempt to suggest that PC Outten was using excessive force.

Unfortunately for her the Judge really didn't see it that way - hence a 16 year sentence.

Silly bint.
She's a moron who seemingly gets airtime.

I guess she'll always provide the counter-argument even when it's idiotic.
Karna has a habit of eventually catching up with these sorts of idiots.


Rather them than me! eekbiggrin

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Crumpet said:
I’ve just read that same article in utter disbelief.

How has the jury cleared him of possessing an offensive weapon? How is it not attempted murder?

How can this animal ever be considered for release?!
Because the legal system is a ducking joke. This country is a joke


I wonder what the make up of the jury was and who voted what.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Crumpet said:
I’ve just read that same article in utter disbelief.

How has the jury cleared him of possessing an offensive weapon? How is it not attempted murder?

How can this animal ever be considered for release?!
Because the legal system is a ducking joke. This country is a joke

I wonder what the make up of the jury was and who voted what.
The summary from the judge suggests the jury have come to the right conclusions.



vikingaero

10,256 posts

168 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
In my warped world, I would advocate that any solicitor/barrister who defends someone who is found guilty, should also serve the same term as the offender. biggrin Guaranteed there will be an appeal whether there are grounds for it or not - follow the stinking legal money route - all about money.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
In my warped world, I would advocate that any solicitor/barrister who defends someone who is found guilty, should also serve the same term as the offender. biggrin Guaranteed there will be an appeal whether there are grounds for it or not - follow the stinking legal money route - all about money.
You'd like a system where only the rich can afford legal representation? Imagine the premium they'd charge of they face years in prison

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
La Liga said:
s1962a said:
Fatball said:
Sophie Khan is asking on twitter why the met have not started disciplinary action against the officer for assaulting the offender. The world, or her world has gone mad.
Where are you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/khan_sophie?ref_src=twsrc%5Ego...
https://twitter.com/khan_sophie/status/1220465565690748928

I think she is to be ignored.
It's a parody account?

JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Digga said:
Given his utter lack of remorse, the ferocity of the attack and his previous convictions, I'd like to see some sort of 3 strikes and out type sentencing in the UK, once we have sufficient prison places, because the general public deserve to be protected from worthless grubs like this.

Until then, I can see 16 years is the best we can do.
I'm not entirely convinced by the conventional wisdom on that.

Muhammed Rodwan is 56, which means he's had 38 years of adult offending. We know of a rape in 1983, another machete attack in 1998, possession of drugs in 2008 and this. Not to mention driving without insurance which caused the stop in the first place.

I imagine there were other minor offences over the years which have been wiped from the record and of course dozens or even hundreds for which he was never prosecuted.

What is the actual cost to the exchequer in police resources, court time and benefits, the cost to wider society for the mess people like this make, the other criminals he has no doubt influenced into a life of crime and drug abuse, and of course the un-costable human misery for his victims. It can't be calculated as accurately as prison places but it's very real, and would have been reduced by every year he spent in prison or dead since 1982.

It's only by luck that he hasn't killed anyone, and it will still only be luck of he doesn't kill anyone when he gets out in a few years.

It's like getting better value out of the police and court time spent catching and prosecuting criminals.

TTwiggy

11,500 posts

203 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
In my warped world, I would advocate that any solicitor/barrister who defends someone who is found guilty, should also serve the same term as the offender. biggrin Guaranteed there will be an appeal whether there are grounds for it or not - follow the stinking legal money route - all about money.
You do realise that it’s a taxi rank system that determines who defends whichever accused?

I sincerely hope you’re having a laugh.

JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
In my warped world, I would advocate that any solicitor/barrister who defends someone who is found guilty, should also serve the same term as the offender. biggrin Guaranteed there will be an appeal whether there are grounds for it or not - follow the stinking legal money route - all about money.
I can't even see the reasoning behind that.

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
JuanCarlosFandango said:
What is the actual cost to the exchequer in police resources, court time and benefits, the cost to wider society for the mess people like this make, the other criminals he has no doubt influenced into a life of crime and drug abuse, and of course the un-costable human misery for his victims. It can't be calculated as accurately as prison places but it's very real, and would have been reduced by every year he spent in prison or dead since 1982.

Well, it costs £37k p.a. per prisoner serving at Her Maj's pleasure ( on average ) so what is your answer ?

Factor in the cost of this trial, the length of the sentence handed down, other associated costs, etc and Mr Mad Machete Man will have cost society somewhere in the region of £1,000,000 for his latest escapade I would imagine ...

Tootles the Taxi

495 posts

186 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
If this had happened in the US or and one of a number of countries that have routinely armed Police, the offender would have been put down at the scene of the crime.

That sounds like value for money to me.


RowntreesCabana

Original Poster:

1,792 posts

253 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Earlier in the thread someone noted that "attempted murder" was demoted to the lesser crime of "wounding with intent" as it would be easier to prove and to get a conviction. This too crossed my mind, however the defending QC jumped on this and said that the judge should be more lenient, acknowledging the jurors' rejection of the more serious charge of attempted murder and their acceptance that Rodwan was not carrying the machete unlawfully.

Also, anyone convicted of attacking someone with a blade should be prohibited from carrying any such weapon in public for the rest of their life. Carrying a machete after serving time for attacking someone with a machete should mean instant jail term.

JuanCarlosFandango

7,787 posts

70 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
Red 4 said:
Well, it costs £37k p.a. per prisoner serving at Her Maj's pleasure ( on average ) so what is your answer ?

Factor in the cost of this trial, the length of the sentence handed down, other associated costs, etc and Mr Mad Machete Man will have cost society somewhere in the region of £1,000,000 for his latest escapade I would imagine ...
By your own figures had he been locked up since his last outburst of machete gardening 22 years ago in 1998 it would have cost £814k (22×37) so we would already be better off if he had been locked up for life then. Or hanged, assuming we could accomplish that for less £1m.

My answer, so far as I have one, is that catching and prosecuting the same criminals again and again has a financial and moral cost which is not always captured by studies showing that long sentences or capital punishment are ineffective ways to tackle crime. They would have been extremely effective for this individual and our leniency may yet cost a life and/or another chunk of cash in a few years time.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 24th January 2020
quotequote all
RowntreesCabana said:
Earlier in the thread someone noted that "attempted murder" was demoted to the lesser crime of "wounding with intent" as it would be easier to prove and to get a conviction. This too crossed my mind, however the defending QC jumped on this and said that the judge should be more lenient, acknowledging the jurors' rejection of the more serious charge of attempted murder and their acceptance that Rodwan was not carrying the machete unlawfully
The attempted murder wasn't 'demoted' to get an easier conviction. The attempted murder was presented to the jury who found it wasn't proven. They found the lesser offence to be proven.

This wasn't a case of 'bargaining' i.e. the defendant will plead guilty to the GBH with intent if the CPS will accept it rather than go to trial for attempted murder etc.

Not sure what point you're making (not being funny, genuinely not sure) with quoting the defendant's counsel, but obviously their job is to present the best case for the defendant, including mitigation.


RowntreesCabana

Original Poster:

1,792 posts

253 months

Saturday 25th January 2020
quotequote all
La Liga said:
he attempted murder wasn't 'demoted' to get an easier conviction. The attempted murder was presented to the jury who found it wasn't proven. They found the lesser offence to be proven.

This wasn't a case of 'bargaining' i.e. the defendant will plead guilty to the GBH with intent if the CPS will accept it rather than go to trial for attempted murder etc.

Not sure what point you're making (not being funny, genuinely not sure) with quoting the defendant's counsel, but obviously their job is to present the best case for the defendant, including mitigation.
If you look at it in the context of the first part of the post (which you pointed out was my misunderstanding of the system), the highlighted part was related to the fact that I believed that the QC used this fact to defend his client, hence why demote the crime to enable a prosecution when the defence will use this as a reason to reduce their clients sentence.


XCP

16,876 posts

227 months

Saturday 25th January 2020
quotequote all
Lucky for mad machete man that he wasn't in the US. Or practically any other country for that matter.

Cowards like him only attack the police in this country because they know that the worst that can happen is an electric shock. ( unless they take on a police dog, in which case all bets are off)

Red 4

10,744 posts

186 months

Saturday 25th January 2020
quotequote all
XCP said:
Cowards like him only attack the police in this country because they know that the worst that can happen is an electric shock. ( unless they take on a police dog, in which case all bets are off)
I saw someone bite a police dog once.
Suffice to say the handler was not happy. The dog even less so.

There was a TV programme aired last year when 2 scumbags in the GMP area were wrestling with a police dog and trying to bite it on its ear.
Plenty of scum out there.The dog usually wins though.

Having said that I'm not sure how a Landshark would fair v. Mr Machete Nutjob.

Edited by Red 4 on Saturday 25th January 12:30