Huawei - permitted to participate in 5G networks

Huawei - permitted to participate in 5G networks

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surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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s2art said:
ash73 said:
s2art said:
Re encryption, that boat is about to sail. I think they are up to 72 qbit quantum processors now. A 48 qbit processor managed to perform in 3 minutes and 20 seconds what the fastest trad supercomputer would need thousands of years. Coming soon.
Encryption algorithms will move on to keep ahead of quantum hardware, e.g. lattice cryptography.
Maybe. Or until someone comes up with a better quantum algorithm for attacking said encryption.
Mobile traffic is already encrypted but the mobile operators have the key. Additional encryption is of course possible, but it’s more data to process transmit and decode. 5G is meant to be quicker than 4G..

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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PSB1 said:
BoJo is no poodle, that’s for sure.
Indeed. Dominic Cummins told him not to be.

stongle

5,910 posts

161 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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Is the reason that everyone has their knickers in a twist, that by Chinese law, Huawei are REQUIRED to cooperate with PLA or MSS? Is it even that technical an issue?. I'm sure that IF or rather whenever they want something a goon from the MSS is dispatched to ask / cajole / threaten Huawei execs and remind them if their patriotic duty.

Interesting, the entire MSS has a budget of $8bn, which seems next to nothing. So I looked and the CIA budget is evidently only $15bn

Yeah, right. JP Morgan's annual IT budget is $10bn. Bank of America is even more.

Zirconia

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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ash73 said:
I imagine other hardware providers do similar things to Huawei.

Can't businesses just treat all network devices as untrusted and encrypt everything?

Will our military be dependent on the public 5G network? If not, do we care?

If there's a genuine concern about availability, everything is redundant so use different vendors for primary and backup links.

Without knowing the details it sounds like a political decision not a technical one.
I would hazard a guess that military and other government stuff work on bespoke networks built to order. It would be interesting to know if there is any of this kit in them but bet that is a secret. Same for banking stuff and other secure networks.

But you don't need to know the content when you can also make use of the traffic density, where from etc.

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
quotequote all
Zirconia said:
ash73 said:
I imagine other hardware providers do similar things to Huawei.

Can't businesses just treat all network devices as untrusted and encrypt everything?

Will our military be dependent on the public 5G network? If not, do we care?

If there's a genuine concern about availability, everything is redundant so use different vendors for primary and backup links.

Without knowing the details it sounds like a political decision not a technical one.
I would hazard a guess that military and other government stuff work on bespoke networks built to order. It would be interesting to know if there is any of this kit in them but bet that is a secret. Same for banking stuff and other secure networks.

But you don't need to know the content when you can also make use of the traffic density, where from etc.
First of all EE are building the new emergency services network.

Secondly imagine we have fallen out with China, we are reliant on 5g with driverless cars etc. They hit the ‘off’ button. If it is a huge part of the network could be quite an issue.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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Economic warfare by the Americans who are guilty of everything the Chinese are, except what the Chinese do to their own people the Americans do to others.

Zirconia

36,010 posts

283 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
quotequote all
surveyor said:
First of all EE are building the new emergency services network.

Secondly imagine we have fallen out with China, we are reliant on 5g with driverless cars etc. They hit the ‘off’ button. If it is a huge part of the network could be quite an issue.
Fist bit? Not sure I got that.
I was referring to the military and government, banking and other high tech org with a lot to hide (not naughty hide but usuall secrets required to be kept). Those links that probably don't go over the joe bloggs stuff we use.

Not saying there isn't an off switch. There is a lot of info out there that could be useful before any "off" switch is used. The threat is not just the dooms day bit as I read it.

Couple of the UK Huawei execs had an interesting part in the Tory party a few years ago.





surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
quotequote all
Zirconia said:
surveyor said:
First of all EE are building the new emergency services network.

Secondly imagine we have fallen out with China, we are reliant on 5g with driverless cars etc. They hit the ‘off’ button. If it is a huge part of the network could be quite an issue.
Fist bit? Not sure I got that.
I was referring to the military and government, banking and other high tech org with a lot to hide (not naughty hide but usuall secrets required to be kept). Those links that probably don't go over the joe bloggs stuff we use.

Not saying there isn't an off switch. There is a lot of info out there that could be useful before any "off" switch is used. The threat is not just the dooms day bit as I read it.

Couple of the UK Huawei execs had an interesting part in the Tory party a few years ago.
Currently emergency services use a TETRA based network, run by Airwave who are owned by Motorola.

EE have won a contract to roll out a new network for the Emergency Services which was meant to be live by now. It's not but it is coming along. Certainly they have build a number of new rural sites to obtain the coverage requirement, and less obtrusively upgraded their existing sites.

How much of this equipment is Huaewei? and how much goes through the EE core (95% Huawei). I'm pretty sure that most of the security services etc will be moving onto this in due course.


Sheepshanks

32,534 posts

118 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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I think it's quite funny that Huawei's products used in the UK are reviewed by the 'UK's' Huawei Cyber Security Evaluation Centre - which is run and staffed by Huawei people.

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Tuesday 28th January 2020
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Big contracts like this the money should flow into the UK, Europe or US but not China, basic stuff. No investment in our own tech and we wont have any tech in a few years.

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
What I find strange is we send warships to the other side of the world because of Chinese expansionism in the south China sea, but think it's ok to give them control of our data network ,
why the rush for 5G? surely it's more important to improve coverage of 4G , who asked for 5G?
A person on the TV said Huawei ( Chinese government) had more people working on 5G than all our security services combined, do we honestly believe we will be able to spot a back door in the system, I don't think so.

Russ T Bolt

1,686 posts

282 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Currently emergency services use a TETRA based network, run by Airwave who are owned by Motorola.

EE have won a contract to roll out a new network for the Emergency Services which was meant to be live by now. It's not but it is coming along. Certainly they have build a number of new rural sites to obtain the coverage requirement, and less obtrusively upgraded their existing sites.

How much of this equipment is Huaewei? and how much goes through the EE core (95% Huawei). I'm pretty sure that most of the security services etc will be moving onto this in due course.
A couple of corrections for you.

The contract awarded to EE was for ESN to be based on a commercial network, in that respect EE aren’t building a new network. I understand the Network is in place, it is the software for devices that is running late.

If you are referring to the mobile core, i would be interested why you think it is 95% Huawei

Mobile networks tend to be built without reliance on a particular supplier, resilience is built in. So in the example earlier, if China switched off Huawei kit the remainder of the network will continue, albeit under load.

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
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PRTVR said:
What I find strange is we send warships to the other side of the world because of Chinese expansionism in the south China sea, but think it's ok to give them control of our data network ,
why the rush for 5G? surely it's more important to improve coverage of 4G , who asked for 5G?
A person on the TV said Huawei ( Chinese government) had more people working on 5G than all our security services combined, do we honestly believe we will be able to spot a back door in the system, I don't think so.
+1

Biggest security breach since Noah put the lions in with the unicorns IMHO.

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
Russ T Bolt said:
surveyor said:
Currently emergency services use a TETRA based network, run by Airwave who are owned by Motorola.

EE have won a contract to roll out a new network for the Emergency Services which was meant to be live by now. It's not but it is coming along. Certainly they have build a number of new rural sites to obtain the coverage requirement, and less obtrusively upgraded their existing sites.

How much of this equipment is Huaewei? and how much goes through the EE core (95% Huawei). I'm pretty sure that most of the security services etc will be moving onto this in due course.
A couple of corrections for you.

The contract awarded to EE was for ESN to be based on a commercial network, in that respect EE aren’t building a new network. I understand the Network is in place, it is the software for devices that is running late.

If you are referring to the mobile core, i would be interested why you think it is 95% Huawei

Mobile networks tend to be built without reliance on a particular supplier, resilience is built in. So in the example earlier, if China switched off Huawei kit the remainder of the network will continue, albeit under load.
Perhaps semantics, mainly as I see plenty of rural sites only built because of ESN. Still carrying ESN traffic over the commercial core does not exactly ease the risk.

As for 95%. That was a figure told to me by someone who I think is in a position to know.

I’m not going to name them and like any information on the internet it may be factual, completely wrong or somewhere in between.

rodericb

6,662 posts

125 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
What I find strange is we send warships to the other side of the world because of Chinese expansionism in the south China sea, but think it's ok to give them control of our data network ,
why the rush for 5G? surely it's more important to improve coverage of 4G , who asked for 5G?
A person on the TV said Huawei ( Chinese government) had more people working on 5G than all our security services combined, do we honestly believe we will be able to spot a back door in the system, I don't think so.
We NEED to have 8k video streaming into our driverless cars. We simply can't function as a society without it....

PRTVR

7,073 posts

220 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
rodericb said:
PRTVR said:
What I find strange is we send warships to the other side of the world because of Chinese expansionism in the south China sea, but think it's ok to give them control of our data network ,
why the rush for 5G? surely it's more important to improve coverage of 4G , who asked for 5G?
A person on the TV said Huawei ( Chinese government) had more people working on 5G than all our security services combined, do we honestly believe we will be able to spot a back door in the system, I don't think so.
We NEED to have 8k video streaming into our driverless cars. We simply can't function as a society without it....
Of course I forgot, but will having to wait a few more years for be the end of the world, I find it strange that the government is pushing ahead with this, why?

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
What I find strange is we send warships to the other side of the world because of Chinese expansionism in the south China sea, but think it's ok to give them control of our data network ,
why the rush for 5G? surely it's more important to improve coverage of 4G , who asked for 5G?
A person on the TV said Huawei ( Chinese government) had more people working on 5G than all our security services combined, do we honestly believe we will be able to spot a back door in the system, I don't think so.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/special/chinesedr...

The Chinese Dream is playing out with economics rather than bullets.

Russ T Bolt

1,686 posts

282 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
surveyor said:
Perhaps semantics, mainly as I see plenty of rural sites only built because of ESN. Still carrying ESN traffic over the commercial core does not exactly ease the risk.

As for 95%. That was a figure told to me by someone who I think is in a position to know.

I’m not going to name them and like any information on the internet it may be factual, completely wrong or somewhere in between.
Not really semantics, EE are making changes to their commercial network to deliver ESN across it, they aren't building a new network. They are extending coverage, partly for ESN and partly to meet their objectives re UK coverage.

The 95% is incorrect, by some margin

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
Russ T Bolt said:
surveyor said:
Perhaps semantics, mainly as I see plenty of rural sites only built because of ESN. Still carrying ESN traffic over the commercial core does not exactly ease the risk.

As for 95%. That was a figure told to me by someone who I think is in a position to know.

I’m not going to name them and like any information on the internet it may be factual, completely wrong or somewhere in between.
Not really semantics, EE are making changes to their commercial network to deliver ESN across it, they aren't building a new network. They are extending coverage, partly for ESN and partly to meet their objectives re UK coverage.

The 95% is incorrect, by some margin
Good to know.

Carl_Manchester

12,103 posts

261 months

Wednesday 29th January 2020
quotequote all
stongle said:
Is the reason that everyone has their knickers in a twist
Read about Nortel, after Nortel my view on Chinese tech and the Chinese government changed to negative.