New petrol and diesel vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035

[g3org3y]

article said:

The last date to buy a new petrol, diesel or hybrid car in the UK will be brought forward from 2040 to 2035, under government plans.

The change is being made to help Britain achieve virtually zero carbon emissions by the middle of the century.

The policy will be unveiled at an event to launch Glasgow's hosting of a United Nations climate summit in November.

...

Hybrid vehicles are also now being included in the proposals, which were originally announced in July 2017.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-513...

15 years isn't very long to sort out all the required infrastructure. Will the running of petrol/diesel cars then be made prohibitively expensive so as to force people into purchasing electric cars?

[zygalski]

In 15 years' time there'll be so many old bds cluttering up the roads, I think I'll be thankful to use public transport!

[Tootles the Taxi]

It beggars belief. Where will all the electricity to power the replacement EVs come from? What about the lithium needed for the batteries? EVs need less maintenance, so UK govt is happy to end the employment of all those currently keeping internal combustion vehicles safely on the road.

Welcome to a mid-21st century Britain where you can't travel more than 70 miles from home and guarantee you'll be able to get back in the same day.

Mobility for the rich only (who can afford the cost of EVs or keep "heritage" petrol cars on the road).

What about all those people who need a car but can't afford seventy squillion pounds for a new EV? They'll be forced to keep running increasingly inefficient IC vehicles running until the fuel/spares run out.

It's like fking Mad Max without the preceding fun of the nuclear apocalypse.

[markcoznottz]

Recent stories about tearing out gas boilers and every house having heat pumps. Is any legislation on the horizon to force new builds to use these? What about mandated charge points for electric vehicles? Surely it needs starting now.

[Earthdweller]

I live in the country.. my heating is oil, backed up with coal, peat, wood fires .. they want to ban it all

Local town is a 40 mile round trip, major town is a 90 mile round trip

Not everyone lives in a city or built up urban areas : laugh:

In the winter you can’t even rely on the electric supply here .. it’s all overhead lines and the storms play havoc with them

[paulrockliffe]

20 years ago I worked at Sellafield. There was a desperate need to build new nuclear power then, none has been built and Gordon Brown sold all the tech we had to do it (Westinghouse) for a pittance.

The idea that we can continue to close coal and gas and scale up EV use in 15 years without new nuclear is utterly ridiculous. The idea that we can build new nuclear within that time-frame is even more ridiculous.

[Coolbananas]

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

[A500leroy]

Coolbananas said:

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

why should i be punished for being working class?

[Zetec-S]

Coolbananas said:

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

All very well, but the reality is any "plan" will be a half arsed demonstration of incompetence from all the government(s), public bodies, consultants, etc who stick their oar in. So for example, expect legislation in late 2034 to make installing charging points in new builds mandatory.

[steve2]

Coolbananas said:

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

There will never be enough charging points for EV,s in Towns where you can’t always park in your own road let alone outside your door, also on new developments where they build lots of flats, I live in a village quite a way out of town(like many others and we have no parking outside our houses,
It just will not work

[hutchst]

Earthdweller said:

I live in the country.. my heating is oil, backed up with coal, peat, wood fires .. they want to ban it all

Local town is a 40 mile round trip, major town is a 90 mile round trip

Not everyone lives in a city or built up urban areas : laugh:

In the winter you can’t even rely on the electric supply here .. it’s all overhead lines and the storms play havoc with them

The ban on mains gas connections isn't going to cause you too much of a headace, is it?

[Gecko1978]

I think what this means is effectively in the next 5 years the demand of petrol or diesels will fall to almost zero, I often look at cars on autotrader 10 plus years old still viable. 2025 new car is going to be pretty much obsolete before its useful life is over. I get you will still be able to own it but the ban will cause used values to fall and to offset this firms will have to plan ahead. 15 years os a good amount of time but I am not sure its enough to unwide 100 years or so of convention

[b2hbm]

It doesn't sound very long but I could see it happening. Although a much lower impact, we went from leaded to unleaded petrol without too much fuss, the market just adapted to selling engines capable of using unleaded.

On the face of it this looks far harder but with charge points in car parks, workplace parking, etc and you could see how it would work for most commuters. Long trips would still be a problem but from what's happened so far perhaps the range will extend to cope with this.

I'm a definite petrolhead and used to consider electric cars as either toys or milk floats. But even to me it looks as if there's significant advances and although it took some shifting I am finding myself impressed. Given sufficient drip feeding I reckon in the next 5 years or so you'll turn up at the main dealer expecting to buy electric cars with diesels nowhere to be seen and petrol cars at the back of the showroom.

Where I'm intrigued is how this will be "zero carbon". Electricity has got to come from somewhere and we're going to need a shed more electrons if everyone is plugging in overnight and during the daytime. Even scrapping petrol/diesel cars with 10yrs life left in them will have a "carbon cost" if you avoid the hype and look at the real facts. Not impossible by any means but at the moment the "zero carbon" looks more media spin than anything else.

[Crackie]

Coolbananas said:

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

Hi CB, why the plural name change?? I wonder if all your large back catalogue of thirsty 4WDs and performance cars that you had in your profile when called Coolbanana are still on the road?

Nothing like a reformed smoker......

[Tootles the Taxi]

Coolbananas said:

Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.

The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home

Just wondering why, as someone with a distaste for cars an an obvious dislike of car owners, you choose to pollute a predominantly car-oriented forum with your bile?

Isn't there a macramae or yurt-building forum available that's more closely aligned to your interests? Or are you just a knob?

[FiF]

Setting aside the hyperbole above, plus ignoring whether you are for or against the emphasis on climate change, which is now, sadly, automatically taken to mean anthropogenic climate change as opposed to the sort that's been occurring since time began.

I can see the point about getting rid of what I refer to as compliance hybrids, the sort that do about a mile on electric charge, so called self charging hybrids, too complicated for not a lot of benefit. Plug in hybrids are perhaps another case, though EV fan boys will say they're also going out and a waste of time.

Firstly, accepting that BEV vehicles are getting better, though what I buy to tow a big trailer or head out into the wild forest and moorland is another question, the big issue is the ' public network charging infrastructure,' in quote marks for obvious reasons, it's so poor, disjointed, unreliable, complicated access and payment, and so far insufficient points for those who are away from home charge or don't have a home charge point. At this point Dickinson or another Tesla fanboy will come along and go "ooh but Tesla". Well yes they do have their system nailed, accepted, but I would argue that is only because the numbers on the roads are limited by price.

Which comes to another thing, the purchase price of the bloody things. I'm looking at various options, getting ready for when my current daily gets to the stage where it needs replacement, I'm ignoring the towing and wilderness question, the difference in price for a typical ICE and it's BEV version would buy me several years worth of fuel. Yes I know it's more complicated than that simple view but it's important.

The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.

Meanwhile what's going to happen to vehicle sales, you've currently got disruption by a public confused with the "buy diesel it's better due to less CO2" message being ditched coupled with increasing local emission zones really bearing down on diesels. People like me will have been thinking, ok I can see a couple of places that I go to regularly, or once in a while are looking at this, maybe it's better to think about electric, but as full electric can't quite hack it yet, maybe some sort of hybrid is future proofing things to some extent. Ban on hybrid, what will happen to the resale valye of that expensive hybrid? One in consideration like for like 6k more, and that's not the worst case.

I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.

[Earthdweller]

hutchst said:

Earthdweller said:

I live in the country.. my heating is oil, backed up with coal, peat, wood fires .. they want to ban it all

Local town is a 40 mile round trip, major town is a 90 mile round trip

Not everyone lives in a city or built up urban areas : laugh:

In the winter you can’t even rely on the electric supply here .. it’s all overhead lines and the storms play havoc with them

The ban on mains gas connections isn't going to cause you too much of a headace, is it?

That’s a positive I suppose

[hutchst]

FiF said:

Setting aside the hyperbole above, plus ignoring whether you are for or against the emphasis on climate change, which is now, sadly, automatically taken to mean anthropogenic climate change as opposed to the sort that's been occurring since time began.

I can see the point about getting rid of what I refer to as compliance hybrids, the sort that do about a mile on electric charge, so called self charging hybrids, too complicated for not a lot of benefit. Plug in hybrids are perhaps another case, though EV fan boys will say they're also going out and a waste of time.

Firstly, accepting that BEV vehicles are getting better, though what I buy to tow a big trailer or head out into the wild forest and moorland is another question, the big issue is the ' public network charging infrastructure,' in quote marks for obvious reasons, it's so poor, disjointed, unreliable, complicated access and payment, and so far insufficient points for those who are away from home charge or don't have a home charge point. At this point Dickinson or another Tesla fanboy will come along and go "ooh but Tesla". Well yes they do have their system nailed, accepted, but I would argue that is only because the numbers on the roads are limited by price.

Which comes to another thing, the purchase price of the bloody things. I'm looking at various options, getting ready for when my current daily gets to the stage where it needs replacement, I'm ignoring the towing and wilderness question, the difference in price for a typical ICE and it's BEV version would buy me several years worth of fuel. Yes I know it's more complicated than that simple view but it's important.

The other thing is that the argument for offsetting the extra purchase price by cheap electricity is going to be blown out of the water because governments are goung to have to replace lost duty and tax income from sale of petrol and diesel. Road pricing, tracking and a monthly bill, that's where it will go, mark my words.

Meanwhile what's going to happen to vehicle sales, you've currently got disruption by a public confused with the "buy diesel it's better due to less CO2" message being ditched coupled with increasing local emission zones really bearing down on diesels. People like me will have been thinking, ok I can see a couple of places that I go to regularly, or once in a while are looking at this, maybe it's better to think about electric, but as full electric can't quite hack it yet, maybe some sort of hybrid is future proofing things to some extent. Ban on hybrid, what will happen to the resale valye of that expensive hybrid? One in consideration like for like 6k more, and that's not the worst case.

I'm sorry Boris, but this is a WTF moment.

Its going to be the same whatever moment you choose. Might as well bite the bullet and get on with it. As soon as UK plc works out how to make money from it, the charging problem will disappear.

[Steve vRS]

Gecko1978 said:

I think what this means is effectively in the next 5 years the demand of petrol or diesels will fall to almost zero, I often look at cars on autotrader 10 plus years old still viable. 2025 new car is going to be pretty much obsolete before its useful life is over. I get you will still be able to own it but the ban will cause used values to fall and to offset this firms will have to plan ahead. 15 years os a good amount of time but I am not sure its enough to unwide 100 years or so of convention

Will it?

It’s a ban on the sale of new cars, not the resale of existing cars.

It could go one of two ways. The market may still want internal combustion and so with the supply of new cars being eliminated, the demand for good used models may increase.

Or, people are like sheep and will just want to lease a new electric base model Audi/BMW/Mercedes and so there will be a glut of used IC cars which will drive values down.

[marksx]

Two threads running:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...