New petrol and diesel vehicles sales ban in UK from 2035
Discussion
markcoznottz said:
Recent stories about tearing out gas boilers and every house having heat pumps. Is any legislation on the horizon to force new builds to use these? What about mandated charge points for electric vehicles? Surely it needs starting now.
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4paulrockliffe said:
robinessex said:
“IONITY, Europe’s network for high-power-charging of electric vehicles, announced it will raise its charging prices by over 500 percent effective January 31, 2020”
https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/interna...
I presume that they're already charging a significant multiple of the electricity cost? To be honest, they probably need milk it as much as the market will sustain if they're going to build a network that can support all cars.https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/interna...
Are we heading towards expensive charging for people that can't afford houses that can support charging infrastructure and expensive charging for the proles? Seems like a sensible plan that couldn't possibly end badly.....
It’s to put off Tesla owners using it as the IONITY chargers are faster than the Tesla super chargers.
It’s basically preferential treatment for the car manufacturers who are funding it which is fair enough.
jshell said:
markcoznottz said:
Recent stories about tearing out gas boilers and every house having heat pumps. Is any legislation on the horizon to force new builds to use these? What about mandated charge points for electric vehicles? Surely it needs starting now.
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4"There is widespread agreement that there needs to be a vast reduction in CO2 emissions if the extremes of climate change are to be averted."
Just about wrong on every point there.
rxe said:
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too. 
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
Problem is, I suspect a lot of people will stay home. The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
We’ve been here before. Planners and government decided that cars were bad, and councils ferociously made life awkward for drivers. What happened? High streets were annihilated. People had an easier, cheaper alternative and just took it.
Same will happen here. Are we going to go out and spend some money, or sit at home and watch Netflix? Make it awkward and/or expensive to move, and they will indeed stay at home.
The resulting unemployment (mainly in groups of people who are pretty marginal already) is going to be catastrophic. Remember that these people can vote....
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...
'The government has confirmed plans for consumers to begin paying for new nuclear reactors before they are built, and for taxpayers to pay a share of any cost overruns or construction delays.' hmmm. That's not even deferred taxation, it's a tax on a tax. Seems to me that the stories about the uk being extorted by multinationals are true, only before it was the ominous ttip, seems we don't need that to f
k our selves up. Comstock said:
Camoradi said:
I shall be buying a newish petrol or diesel car in 2034 and that should see me out.
That;s not what you need to worry about. It's a question of how long the current network of petrol stations will stay viable.I think the government's plans have more chance of being ill judged than mine.
Crackie said:
robinessex said:
Coolbananas said:
Excellent news, of course and I wish Boris all the very best in delivering that - I only hope similar happens where I live too.
The whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
You're in the wrong forum, please go awayThe whingers who refuse to adapt can moan all they like - it is happening and they will be forced to comply. The car-ownership model, shared-use and public transport etc, it is all changing. Those who cannot solve any infrastructure issues to support their own car will have to use shared, Uber-type solutions or public transport. All good. Adapt or stay home
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I loved my gas-guzzlers and the like. I make no excuses for owning them when I did nor the pleasure I got from driving them. Why would I have a guilty conscience? I'm quite happy to make the shift from petrol/diesel to hybrid and then full EV in the timelines set out. I think it is fair. The time has come, I do believe that. Hell, give me a Porsche 992 now and I'll happily drive it.
I'm no sodding evangelist for going green but I accept why we should and will comply along with everyone else to the timelines set out. I won't spend my own money on a non-hybrid or EV now already as I'm comfortable with adapting to saying good bye to ICE - it was inevitable eventually so now is as good a time as another. Get it done.
I support the reasoning behind the change, I completely disagree with those who do not believe ICE has to go for various reasons, I think their defence is wrong and desperate and welcome the future motoring has in store for us. It isn't the end of enthusiastic driving, it isn't the end of having fun driving. I drive a hybrid now and I'm waiting for an MX-5/Boxster/Alpine type EV as my next fun car. The hybrid will make way for an EV next too - well before 2030.
I have zero issue with people making the most of what they can get now, but I do think they should be accepting that they are saying good bye to ICE generally if they are of an age whereby they will still be driving come 2030/40 and onwards. Instead of being in denial.
The tech and the Governmental will to get to where we are now was a slow burner but it is heading in a direction that isn't going to be stopped now for the reasons we all know and love or hate. It is fine to disagree and come up with arguments you convince yourself debunk the reasoning you oppose but it means nothing - vote Boris out if you don't like his enthusiasm for a cleaner UK and hope Labour feel differently but first you'll need to stop all the major car manufacturers from winding down ICE production because come 2030/35 you will find even if you were permitted to buy them, they'd be rarer and more expensive that the alternatives and this would worsen with time. Existing ICE infrastructure will decrease in favour of shifting to the cars manufacturers are then making so it'll be an all-round expensive pain and hassle to keep an ICE vehicle on the road as the years go by.
Adapt. It really isn't going to be anywhere near as bad as the doom-mongers think it will be. Ok, for those who like to tinker on engines, that might be a future issue but that's a very long way off and future generations will largely be unable to afford to run an historic ICE vehicle so won't be bothering with it anyway.
hutchst said:
Its going to be the same whatever moment you choose. Might as well bite the bullet and get on with it. As soon as UK plc works out how to make money from it, the charging problem will disappear.
Actually that's fair comment and I'd like to add some comments further to my earlier rant to which your quoted post was a reply.Firstly now I've calmed down and thought further I'm going to withdraw my "Boris this is a WTF moment" or at minimum change the sentiment behind it.
It has at least helped to clarify my thinking about what to do hence the withdrawal. It's clearly the way things are going wherever you sit on that question, so as always through life, pause, nice cup of tea, have a think, adapt and move on.
I have a ten year old diesel off roader for the towing a heavy trailer into the middle of nowhere. Even though it's from Land Rover, famous last words follow, this will still be able to be kept running long after I'm in my dotage, licence handed in, trying to remember what I had for breakfast, let alone posting pics of a full English on the PH thread and arguing about beans vs tomatoes vs hoops.
So bearing in mind that we have to wait and hear what Govt proposes I reckon Edmund King from the AA isn't too far away when he says Govt will have to make proposals like reducing VAT etc on BEV vehicles, various packages of grants, sort out charging infrastructure.
What this means is stop the dithering over hybrid or full BEV. I haven't particularly liked driving the hybrids I've tried, though in fairness the majority have been the compliance type, e.g. Toyota self charging versions, but have appreciated the limited full BEV tried, even if they don't currently meet needs for various reasons.
So thinking clarified, sack off looking at hybrids, watch for what Govt and market proposes to get folks to make the shift, and then choose an appropriate point to jump. Whatever the current state of the charging network at that point, then just adapt and cope, will be fortunate to have home charging available so not an issue there. Likewise whatever method Govt uses for revenue generation, road charging or tax on electricity via some type of metering, adapt and cope.
There's still a chance that somehow Govt and markets individually or collectively will manage a big screw up, but there will be a way to deal with that.
There that's it, throws away some car brochures.
robinessex said:
jshell said:
markcoznottz said:
Recent stories about tearing out gas boilers and every house having heat pumps. Is any legislation on the horizon to force new builds to use these? What about mandated charge points for electric vehicles? Surely it needs starting now.
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4"There is widespread agreement that there needs to be a vast reduction in CO2 emissions if the extremes of climate change are to be averted."
Just about wrong on every point there.
jshell said:
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4
So that’s what the 450 journalists have been up to - producing a lot of hot air.Comstock said:
Camoradi said:
I shall be buying a newish petrol or diesel car in 2034 and that should see me out.
That;s not what you need to worry about. It's a question of how long the current network ofpetrol stations will stay viable.This is of course if the Tories stay in power to see this through. How often are deadlines not met by governments?
paulrockliffe said:
robinessex said:
jshell said:
markcoznottz said:
Recent stories about tearing out gas boilers and every house having heat pumps. Is any legislation on the horizon to force new builds to use these? What about mandated charge points for electric vehicles? Surely it needs starting now.
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4"There is widespread agreement that there needs to be a vast reduction in CO2 emissions if the extremes of climate change are to be averted."
Just about wrong on every point there.
rdjohn said:
jshell said:
You need to read this from the bbc, it's more fantastical than 'Alice in Wonderland'! https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4
So that’s what the 450 journalists have been up to - producing a lot of hot air.t!b2hbm said:
It doesn't sound very long but I could see it happening. Although a much lower impact, we went from leaded to unleaded petrol without too much fuss, the market just adapted to selling engines capable of using unleaded.
On the face of it this looks far harder but with charge points in car parks, workplace parking, etc and you could see how it would work for most commuters. Long trips would still be a problem but from what's happened so far perhaps the range will extend to cope with this.
I'm a definite petrolhead and used to consider electric cars as either toys or milk floats. But even to me it looks as if there's significant advances and although it took some shifting I am finding myself impressed. Given sufficient drip feeding I reckon in the next 5 years or so you'll turn up at the main dealer expecting to buy electric cars with diesels nowhere to be seen and petrol cars at the back of the showroom.
Where I'm intrigued is how this will be "zero carbon". Electricity has got to come from somewhere and we're going to need a shed more electrons if everyone is plugging in overnight and during the daytime. Even scrapping petrol/diesel cars with 10yrs life left in them will have a "carbon cost" if you avoid the hype and look at the real facts. Not impossible by any means but at the moment the "zero carbon" looks more media spin than anything else.
It was not so very long ago that the politicians tried to force us into using diesel cars to `quote' help the environment. In hindsight It seems that they made a mistake doing that, What guarantees does anyone have that this move too is not also a mistake.On the face of it this looks far harder but with charge points in car parks, workplace parking, etc and you could see how it would work for most commuters. Long trips would still be a problem but from what's happened so far perhaps the range will extend to cope with this.
I'm a definite petrolhead and used to consider electric cars as either toys or milk floats. But even to me it looks as if there's significant advances and although it took some shifting I am finding myself impressed. Given sufficient drip feeding I reckon in the next 5 years or so you'll turn up at the main dealer expecting to buy electric cars with diesels nowhere to be seen and petrol cars at the back of the showroom.
Where I'm intrigued is how this will be "zero carbon". Electricity has got to come from somewhere and we're going to need a shed more electrons if everyone is plugging in overnight and during the daytime. Even scrapping petrol/diesel cars with 10yrs life left in them will have a "carbon cost" if you avoid the hype and look at the real facts. Not impossible by any means but at the moment the "zero carbon" looks more media spin than anything else.
The irony, is that with the current mix of generation methods, Approved Document L gives electricity one of the worst fuel factors of all the fuels which could be used to power a home. So why are they trying to force people into using a fuel, which their own legislation shows is one of the most polluting?
I've got a Toyota hybrid and I think it's a really clever piece of kit. Suits me down to the ground (speaking as an old boy). An easy 70 to 80 mpg on short trips around town, and last summer I got from Essex to the New Forest on two gallons of petrol. I can't understand why they have lumped hybrids in with petrol/diesel at this stage. I would have thought they were a good compromise in the transition period to something that will have to come eventually.
Tell me, do all-electric cars harvest energy as they go along like hybrids do? Or are they strictly charge-up and run-down machines? I love the way that kinetic energy is saved by my hybrid. Something for nothing and no carbon generation at all.
Also, it seems this idea has been dreamed up by people who live in leafy suburbs where houses all have drives, and charging points can be easily installed. The problems in streets with terraced houses, and a nightly scramble for parking, seem insurmountable. I can imagine local kids having loads of fun going down the street unplugging all the cars just for laughs.
Tell me, do all-electric cars harvest energy as they go along like hybrids do? Or are they strictly charge-up and run-down machines? I love the way that kinetic energy is saved by my hybrid. Something for nothing and no carbon generation at all.
Also, it seems this idea has been dreamed up by people who live in leafy suburbs where houses all have drives, and charging points can be easily installed. The problems in streets with terraced houses, and a nightly scramble for parking, seem insurmountable. I can imagine local kids having loads of fun going down the street unplugging all the cars just for laughs.
SeeFive said:
Attenborough wil be dead long before petrol and diesel cars are.John Locke said:
SeeFive said:
Attenborough wil be dead long before petrol and diesel cars are.Is this the same 'young' with an increasing appetite for consumerism of all things tech and throwaway clothing and wanting it right now?
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