Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 9
Discussion
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
biggbn said:
without the clowns in charge
That's the sticking point though, isn't it. Said clowns have twice courted the support of high profile Scottish businesspeople and on both occasions soured the relationship to the point of irretrievable breakdown because of their incompetence.The SNP under Sturgeon have made a name for themselves for being neither business friendly nor business savvy. It may just be a perception or it may actually be based on the losses they have heaped upon contractors who then refuse to deal with them again. It may also be down to the very public displays of ineptitude (signing memoranda of understanding with non-existent Chinese utility companies, for example, and that was supposedly after conducting due-diligence).
On top of that the SNP do not seem to be interested in putting someone in position who can actually work with business. The only person in their ranks with any commercial nous is Bully Blackford, but his only interest seems to be in growing his own pile.
Strangely though this wasn't so much the case when Salmond was in charge, who for all his faults had a handle on the absolute necessity of business recognition and support in making a case for Scottish independence.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 7th July 16:14
Evercross said:
The only person in their ranks with any commercial nous is Bully Blackford, but his only interest seems to be in growing his own pile.
Ah yes, Bunter the oh so humble crofter, former Bloomberg market trader, pension fund chairman, massively remunerated part time consultant, and general trougher. It's vastly amusing that the nationalists decry arch Tories for such behaviour, yet Bully is lauded and celebrated. I see that, despite the fact that AIUI it takes two weeks to determine the impact of local restrictions on a Covid-19 cluster, it's now, after four days, safe for residents of Dumfries and Galloway to travel more than 5 miles again.
Nothing to do with Sturgeon's imprisoning of half of that county for political reasons to drive a wedge between Scotland and England backfiring on her - ironically, at the hands of her own supporters.
I see another border demonstration is planned for Thursday, with Sean Clerkin criticising the FM's (eventual) condemnation of the stunt. I thought that criticism of the Dear Leader was strictly forbidden.
And don't these people have jobs to go to? I think we all already know the answer to that...
Nothing to do with Sturgeon's imprisoning of half of that county for political reasons to drive a wedge between Scotland and England backfiring on her - ironically, at the hands of her own supporters.
I see another border demonstration is planned for Thursday, with Sean Clerkin criticising the FM's (eventual) condemnation of the stunt. I thought that criticism of the Dear Leader was strictly forbidden.
And don't these people have jobs to go to? I think we all already know the answer to that...
Evercross said:
biggbn said:
without the clowns in charge
That's the sticking point though, isn't it. Said clowns have twice courted the support of high profile Scottish businesspeople and on both occasions soured the relationship to the point of irretrievable breakdown because of their incompetence.The SNP under Sturgeon have made a name for themselves for being neither business friendly nor business savvy. It may just be a perception or it may actually be based on the losses they have heaped upon contractors who then refuse to deal with them again. It may also be down to the very public displays of ineptitude (signing memoranda of understanding with non-existent Chinese utility companies, for example, and that was supposedly after conducting due-diligence).
On top of that the SNP do not seem to be interested in putting someone in position who can actually work with business. The only person in their ranks with any commercial nous is Bully Blackford, but his only interest seems to be in growing his own pile.
Strangely though this wasn't so much the case when Salmond was in charge, who for all his faults had a handle on the absolute necessity of business recognition and support in making a case for Scottish independence.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 7th July 16:14
I am no tartan shortbread romantic and although of a socialist bent, I am of a modern socialist bent and realise the huge importance of private and public commerce running successfully together. Capitalism is not evil, it is simply an economic theory that can, unfettered, create inequality. Socialism unfortunately can also create division and yes, inequality, an anomalous state of affairs! Scotland must attract and nurture business if it is to stand alone. That is not a bitter pill for me but it may be for many
This details the Currency headache.
https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i330/...
It doesn't take much to see why dust trails would be seen travelling southwards.
https://www.these-islands.co.uk/publications/i330/...
It doesn't take much to see why dust trails would be seen travelling southwards.
biggbn said:
Thanks for this...I did suggest that we need differently minded clowns/politicians for this side. It is interesting you mention Salmond, whom I cannot abide, and Blackford whom I suspect I would have similar feelings about...however. Sometimes we need to suck a bitter sweetie to get to the sugar!
I am no tartan shortbread romantic and although of a socialist bent, I am of a modern socialist bent and realise the huge importance of private and public commerce running successfully together. Capitalism is not evil, it is simply an economic theory that can, unfettered, create inequality. Socialism unfortunately can also create division and yes, inequality, an anomalous state of affairs! Scotland must attract and nurture business if it is to stand alone. That is not a bitter pill for me but it may be for many
Have you found examples of global inward investment choosing Scotland over England? I mean for the purpose of international business, not just for serving the local Scottish market.I am no tartan shortbread romantic and although of a socialist bent, I am of a modern socialist bent and realise the huge importance of private and public commerce running successfully together. Capitalism is not evil, it is simply an economic theory that can, unfettered, create inequality. Socialism unfortunately can also create division and yes, inequality, an anomalous state of affairs! Scotland must attract and nurture business if it is to stand alone. That is not a bitter pill for me but it may be for many
The only investors I can think of at the moment are ScotGov PLC and UK Treasury PLC.
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
Currency - what will be using? will it be stable?
Stability in general - how will we fare? Austerity is pretty inevitable on day 1 unless we are allowed to borrow 10% of GDP using our new central bank and currency....
Education - looks like we are no better than England and on some views "worse".
Tax policy - high tax scandi approach to personal tax? Who wants to inwardly locate to that environment? Corp Tax? No sign of an SNP govmt going for the low tax option so what's the incentive? Money - we don't have any. See above.
Climate - ha, ha.
Trade Policy? WTO? Entry to the EU?
Infrastructure - any better than England?
Large domestic market to sell into - nope.
Just off the top of my head.
hutchst said:
biggbn said:
Thanks for this...I did suggest that we need differently minded clowns/politicians for this side. It is interesting you mention Salmond, whom I cannot abide, and Blackford whom I suspect I would have similar feelings about...however. Sometimes we need to suck a bitter sweetie to get to the sugar!
I am no tartan shortbread romantic and although of a socialist bent, I am of a modern socialist bent and realise the huge importance of private and public commerce running successfully together. Capitalism is not evil, it is simply an economic theory that can, unfettered, create inequality. Socialism unfortunately can also create division and yes, inequality, an anomalous state of affairs! Scotland must attract and nurture business if it is to stand alone. That is not a bitter pill for me but it may be for many
Have you found examples of global inward investment choosing Scotland over England? I mean for the purpose of international business, not just for serving the local Scottish market.I am no tartan shortbread romantic and although of a socialist bent, I am of a modern socialist bent and realise the huge importance of private and public commerce running successfully together. Capitalism is not evil, it is simply an economic theory that can, unfettered, create inequality. Socialism unfortunately can also create division and yes, inequality, an anomalous state of affairs! Scotland must attract and nurture business if it is to stand alone. That is not a bitter pill for me but it may be for many
The only investors I can think of at the moment are ScotGov PLC and UK Treasury PLC.
ant1973 said:
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
Currency - what will be using? will it be stable?
Stability in general - how will we fare? Austerity is pretty inevitable on day 1 unless we are allowed to borrow 10% of GDP using our new central bank and currency....
Education - looks like we are no better than England and on some views "worse".
Tax policy - high tax scandi approach to personal tax? Who wants to inwardly locate to that environment? Corp Tax? No sign of an SNP govmt going for the low tax option so what's the incentive? Money - we don't have any. See above.
Climate - ha, ha.
Trade Policy? WTO? Entry to the EU?
Infrastructure - any better than England?
Large domestic market to sell into - nope.
Just off the top of my head.
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
Currency - what will be using? will it be stable?
Stability in general - how will we fare? Austerity is pretty inevitable on day 1 unless we are allowed to borrow 10% of GDP using our new central bank and currency....
Education - looks like we are no better than England and on some views "worse".
Tax policy - high tax scandi approach to personal tax? Who wants to inwardly locate to that environment? Corp Tax? No sign of an SNP govmt going for the low tax option so what's the incentive? Money - we don't have any. See above.
Climate - ha, ha.
Trade Policy? WTO? Entry to the EU?
Infrastructure - any better than England?
Large domestic market to sell into - nope.
Just off the top of my head.
How do we get there? I don't know and I am certain that the SNP don't know!
sambucket said:
Its definitely a mixed bag. It would be good to see some serious commitment to things like raising taxes. Removing tax breaks for private schools. Improving Childcare.
Emm, how about naw. How about reducing taxes across the board to make us more competitive and attractive? How about an introduction to the effects of Laffer? Go the other way and people like me who own businesses will be off. I'm already pivoting (to use that hateful recent buzzword) to an online business I can run from anywhere. I'm not paying for your socialist utopia thanks very much.biggbn said:
I am interested in that last point. Why not? A quick check shows a lot of companies are invested in Scotland, and who knows, without the clowns in charge, or with more clued up versions of said clowns if they exist, more could be encouraged? I am, I hope you realise, genuinely interested in the whys and why not and not criticising your statement.
Businesses currently locate/invest in Scotland as part of the UK. We're competing with other UK areas but on an essentially level playing field. Were we to go independent we'd need something pretty attractive to persuade anyone to locate in the fledgling diddy country with no currency and no clue. Especially as our closest competitor includes world's financial centre, is as stable as countries get and would have no hesitation in stealing our lunch.We'd need to do an Ireland and have lower business taxes, but the EU won't approve and the increasingly socialist workforce like sambucket won't either. Yet another unanswered conundrum for the SNP.
technodup said:
sambucket said:
Its definitely a mixed bag. It would be good to see some serious commitment to things like raising taxes. Removing tax breaks for private schools. Improving Childcare.
Emm, how about naw. How about reducing taxes across the board to make us more competitive and attractive? How about an introduction to the effects of Laffer? Go the other way and people like me who own businesses will be off. I'm already pivoting (to use that hateful recent buzzword) to an online business I can run from anywhere. I'm not paying for your socialist utopia thanks very much. this doesn't have anything to do with nationalism does it? I have studied economics before, so yes am familiar with mr laffer.
I ran my business remotely for years from overseas. Highly recommended. However, Tax gets tricky if you have ties to uk still. I’ve got used to paying tax where I live, not where I earn. It’s similar in most countries.
If I wanted to just save tax it wouldn’t be uk I lived. It would be Portugal or similar.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 7th July 20:09
ant1973 said:
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
biggbn said:
ant1973 said:
Roderick Spode said:
malks222 said:
the biggest problem the snp/ independence supporters face, is for independence to work scotland needs to attract big business/ industry to scotland. to attract these industries they need to offer them incentives, the biggest incentive for business is low corporation tax.
with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
An inconvenient reality that the nationalists don't like to admit, or simply don't understand. There would be a massive flight of businesses, finances & skills in the event of an independence vote. Even the prolonged threat of another vote is damaging investment in Scotland, with some businesses choosing to withhold investing or delaying expansion plans. The SNP are a slow dripping poison for Scotland.with big business comes high earners, they have disposable income and assets to bring with them, but these people won’t enjoy being taxed to the hilt. they could maybe put up with the high tax if the national services (health, roads, infrastructure, education, police etc....) are all top notch. but they don’t want to pay a premium (tax) for sub standard services
but the exact people scotland need to welcome/ encourage to come here and do business are the exact people that they currently scream- tory!!!!!
Why invest in Scotland rather than England?
Currency - what will be using? will it be stable?
Stability in general - how will we fare? Austerity is pretty inevitable on day 1 unless we are allowed to borrow 10% of GDP using our new central bank and currency....
Education - looks like we are no better than England and on some views "worse".
Tax policy - high tax scandi approach to personal tax? Who wants to inwardly locate to that environment? Corp Tax? No sign of an SNP govmt going for the low tax option so what's the incentive? Money - we don't have any. See above.
Climate - ha, ha.
Trade Policy? WTO? Entry to the EU?
Infrastructure - any better than England?
Large domestic market to sell into - nope.
Just off the top of my head.
How do we get there? I don't know and I am certain that the SNP don't know!
technodup said:
sambucket said:
Its definitely a mixed bag. It would be good to see some serious commitment to things like raising taxes. Removing tax breaks for private schools. Improving Childcare.
Emm, how about naw. How about reducing taxes across the board to make us more competitive and attractive? How about an introduction to the effects of Laffer? Go the other way and people like me who own businesses will be off. I'm already pivoting (to use that hateful recent buzzword) to an online business I can run from anywhere. I'm not paying for your socialist utopia thanks very much.biggbn said:
I am interested in that last point. Why not? A quick check shows a lot of companies are invested in Scotland, and who knows, without the clowns in charge, or with more clued up versions of said clowns if they exist, more could be encouraged? I am, I hope you realise, genuinely interested in the whys and why not and not criticising your statement.
Businesses currently locate/invest in Scotland as part of the UK. We're competing with other UK areas but on an essentially level playing field. Were we to go independent we'd need something pretty attractive to persuade anyone to locate in the fledgling diddy country with no currency and no clue. Especially as our closest competitor includes world's financial centre, is as stable as countries get and would have no hesitation in stealing our lunch.We'd need to do an Ireland and have lower business taxes, but the EU won't approve and the increasingly socialist workforce like sambucket won't either. Yet another unanswered conundrum for the SNP.
Welshbeef said:
Why does Nicola always say “tooooaraarrry” and in a deliberate accent to mock/belittle everyone who votes for that party (22% odd of the Scottish population according to actual election ballot results).
What about Coooorbyyyn or Keeeiiirrf orlaaaaaabbbbour
Perhaps its her accent? I must admit, there are several posters on here who continually mock the way some speak. I find it quite arrogant and unpleasant. I have mentioned this before but to no avail. What about Coooorbyyyn or Keeeiiirrf orlaaaaaabbbbour
My other point is why would she mention them. They are largely irrelevant as they have no power.
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