45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 8)
Discussion
Electro1980 said:
Jimbeaux said:
paulguitar said:
Probably not, on the basis that is was not thought necessary.
It must have just come into fashion then. Not only that but Trump continues to repeat lies even after they have become public, not only that but doubles down on the lie. Obama, and Bush before him, either stopped repeating proven lies or corrected them.
Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 25th February 17:08
Vanden Saab said:
Electro1980 said:
Jimbeaux said:
paulguitar said:
Probably not, on the basis that is was not thought necessary.
It must have just come into fashion then. Not only that but Trump continues to repeat lies even after they have become public, not only that but doubles down on the lie. Obama, and Bush before him, either stopped repeating proven lies or corrected them.
Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 25th February 17:08
Jimbeaux said:
I agree, it could be worse and even morph more. I do agree with another poster here that suggested the media will hype as much as possible to get ratings. Think how many this virus has killed vs. the “common” annual influenza. Yet we hear comparatively less about that.
Well, the risk of influenza is well established isn't it. This new SARS virus we don't really know what the risk factor is, we know that it spreads easily, we know it can be life threatening, we know there is a latency period where people are infectious without symptoms.I mean, we don't hear about many many things which have established risk factors because it's not really 'news' is it? Flu usually gets into news outlets yearly to remind people to get the vaccination.
gregs656 said:
Well, the risk of influenza is well established isn't it. This new SARS virus we don't really know what the risk factor is, we know that it spreads easily, we know it can be life threatening, we know there is a latency period where people are infectious without symptoms.
I mean, we don't hear about many many things which have established risk factors because it's not really 'news' is it? Flu usually gets into news outlets yearly to remind people to get the vaccination.
Calm down, that post was not a defense of Trump, it was an opinionated observation. I mean, we don't hear about many many things which have established risk factors because it's not really 'news' is it? Flu usually gets into news outlets yearly to remind people to get the vaccination.
Jimbeaux said:
paulguitar said:
I’d be really curious to know what you made of the birther lie, Jim.
No, I never believed that. There is multiple ways in which a birth certificate in Hawaii could be technically wrong, but I have no idea. Since the issuing State office in Hawaii verified it, I go with that. How would I or most anyone know otherwise? Trump, as well as other office seekers, accuse and float all manner of conspiracies to do campaign battle. Happens all the time. Again though, I do not believe it. I did not imagine for a moment that you would have believed the lie, what I am curious about is what you thought of trump’s lie campaign? From my point of view, it was then that I realized that trump was very much worse than merely unpleasant, he was also totally amoral. Did it not bother you to see him campaigning on something he clearly knew was simply untrue, and making up stories about ‘teams of investigators’ who ‘cannot believe what they are finding’, etc, etc…?
zbc said:
Vanden Saab said:
Electro1980 said:
Jimbeaux said:
paulguitar said:
Probably not, on the basis that is was not thought necessary.
It must have just come into fashion then. Not only that but Trump continues to repeat lies even after they have become public, not only that but doubles down on the lie. Obama, and Bush before him, either stopped repeating proven lies or corrected them.
Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 25th February 17:08
zbc said:
Vanden Saab said:
Electro1980 said:
Jimbeaux said:
paulguitar said:
Probably not, on the basis that is was not thought necessary.
It must have just come into fashion then. Not only that but Trump continues to repeat lies even after they have become public, not only that but doubles down on the lie. Obama, and Bush before him, either stopped repeating proven lies or corrected them.
Edited by Electro1980 on Tuesday 25th February 17:08
Jimbeaux said:
Here is a point that will may not match the groupthink here. Trump yesterday signed an order to send water from the San Joaquin reservoir to California farmers who are facing a drought. California has a $54 billion agriculture economy. The state’s Governor, Newsom, has sued to stop this as he claims environmentalist say the water is needed to flow out to the sea to aid certain fish. The U.S. Department of the Interior indicated that those findings are out of date and not applicable. California revenues were down 20% under Obama and have increased by 50% under Trump. That obviously does not sit well with the Dems that run California so they are resorting to outdated fish data to cover their political agenda. They cannot bear that Trump is helping them. The California AG is suing to block the water from ever reaching the farmers.
Not being able to please everyone all the time, I would submit that helping the farms that produce the most food of any state outweighs conflicting threats to certain fish. That said, there is a federal plan to supplement the fisheries that is coming online as a separate program.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bakersfield.com/n...
The matter above seems to be a bit more complicated than as prestended. Not being able to please everyone all the time, I would submit that helping the farms that produce the most food of any state outweighs conflicting threats to certain fish. That said, there is a federal plan to supplement the fisheries that is coming online as a separate program.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bakersfield.com/n...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_River
The San Joaquin River and its surrounding area seems to have a history of drought, pesticide pollution, ground subsidence due to excessive groundwater use by the agricultural sector and in 2010 the natural flow downstream to the ocean was restored and the salmon reintroduced. The natural annual discharge of the San Joaquin since agricultural development seems to have decreased quite significantly as well.
In august 2016 San Luis Reservoir, nearly empty in August, now full for first time in six years
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/11/stunning-tu...
2007–2009 saw three years of drought conditions, the 12th worst drought period in the state's history, and the first drought for which a statewide proclamation of emergency was issued. The drought of 2007–2009 also saw greatly reduced water diversions from the state water project. The summer of 2007 saw some of the worst wildfires in Southern California historyThe period between late 2011 and 2014 was the driest in California history since record-keeping began. In May 2015, a state resident poll conducted by Field Poll found that two out of three respondents agreed that it should be mandated for water agencies to reduce water consumption by 25%
So there seem to be more threats than just fish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_Californ...
I went to eastern California many years ago and was amazed at the size of the salad producing industry there, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers etc, all totally inappropriate crops for a low rainfall region like California, which of course also has a huge wine industry, another highly water-dependent crop. Ironically the Californian salad industry is almost entirely dependent on Mexican labour.
Blackpuddin said:
I went to eastern California many years ago and was amazed at the size of the salad producing industry there, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers etc, all totally inappropriate crops for a low rainfall region like California, which of course also has a huge wine industry, another highly water-dependent crop. Ironically the Californian salad industry is almost entirely dependent on Mexican labour.
Area has many Dutch flower growers as well, just as in the NL they use greenhouses, but not to keep the heat in, but to keep it out.Seems mother nature just can't sustain agriculture and the ever growing population in the region.
By the way, I can remember that droughts were on the news here in Europe as well a couple of years ago, dried out reservoirs etc.
After two recent periods of drought, 2007 - 2009 and 2011 - 2017 it seems California is facing yet another dry period.
Edited by DeltonaS on Tuesday 25th February 19:10
Jimbeaux said:
Calm down, that post was not a defense of Trump, it was an opinionated observation.
I didn't think it was a defence of Trump, I was just pointing out a possible explanation of why the influenza deaths do not make the news in the same way this new SARS virus is currently.Vanden Saab said:
It seemed relevant when the poster was suggesting that a politician had only told 2 and a half lies per year for 8 years.... Do you actually think that is true? If so I have a bridge I could sell you...
I was using the NYTs numbers, that took definition of “lie or falsehood” to be substantially false statements. For Trump the number they got was 108 in ten months. Now, it may be that the number is higher for Obama, but the number would also be higher for Trump in that case, which is the issue at hand. The relative number, not the absolute number.Do you think that is untrue? That Trump lies vastly more than Obama?
DeltonaS said:
The matter above seems to be a bit more complicated than as prestended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_River
The San Joaquin River and its surrounding area seems to have a history of drought, pesticide pollution, ground subsidence due to excessive groundwater use by the agricultural sector and in 2010 the natural flow downstream to the ocean was restored and the salmon reintroduced. The natural annual discharge of the San Joaquin since agricultural development seems to have decreased quite significantly as well.
In august 2016 San Luis Reservoir, nearly empty in August, now full for first time in six years
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/11/stunning-tu...
2007–2009 saw three years of drought conditions, the 12th worst drought period in the state's history, and the first drought for which a statewide proclamation of emergency was issued. The drought of 2007–2009 also saw greatly reduced water diversions from the state water project. The summer of 2007 saw some of the worst wildfires in Southern California historyThe period between late 2011 and 2014 was the driest in California history since record-keeping began. In May 2015, a state resident poll conducted by Field Poll found that two out of three respondents agreed that it should be mandated for water agencies to reduce water consumption by 25%
So there seem to be more threats than just fish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_Californ...
If you think so. Should we let the most food producing farms in the country go dry? $54 billion fall out of that state’s economy?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_River
The San Joaquin River and its surrounding area seems to have a history of drought, pesticide pollution, ground subsidence due to excessive groundwater use by the agricultural sector and in 2010 the natural flow downstream to the ocean was restored and the salmon reintroduced. The natural annual discharge of the San Joaquin since agricultural development seems to have decreased quite significantly as well.
In august 2016 San Luis Reservoir, nearly empty in August, now full for first time in six years
https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/11/stunning-tu...
2007–2009 saw three years of drought conditions, the 12th worst drought period in the state's history, and the first drought for which a statewide proclamation of emergency was issued. The drought of 2007–2009 also saw greatly reduced water diversions from the state water project. The summer of 2007 saw some of the worst wildfires in Southern California historyThe period between late 2011 and 2014 was the driest in California history since record-keeping began. In May 2015, a state resident poll conducted by Field Poll found that two out of three respondents agreed that it should be mandated for water agencies to reduce water consumption by 25%
So there seem to be more threats than just fish.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droughts_in_Californ...
Electro1980 said:
Do you think that is untrue? That Trump lies vastly more than Obama?
Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer. The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.
Blackpuddin said:
I went to eastern California many years ago and was amazed at the size of the salad producing industry there, lettuce, tomatoes, peppers etc, all totally inappropriate crops for a low rainfall region like California, which of course also has a huge wine industry, another highly water-dependent crop. Ironically the Californian salad industry is almost entirely dependent on Mexican labour.
Sure is. The seasonal worker visa program is very effective for that. I understand Europe has similar but must be year around due to different seasons or rules, I forget which. Since it’s seasonal, the workers group together to save on living expenses, allowing them to take most of their money home. Works out somewhat good for both farmer and harvester. gregs656 said:
I didn't think it was a defence of Trump, I was just pointing out a possible explanation of why the influenza deaths do not make the news in the same way this new SARS virus is currently.
I understand; very valid point. I suppose these things are as much phycological as they are real in their effects. Escapegoat said:
Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer.
The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.
I could respond by belittling you quoting the NYT as you would me if I quoted Fox. Both are equally biased. It’s hard to know isn’t it? That is why approximately 80% of us here distrust media in general. The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.
Escapegoat said:
Magic 8 Ball says: ... they won't answer such a direct question with a direct answer.
The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.
The difference is that not all do speed on the M25 but all politicians do lie. The BS that "all politicians lie" is an especially obvious red herring. It's true in the same way that (as this is a car enthusiasts' forum) "everyone speeds" is an appropriate defence to being caught doing 150mph on the M25 for the 1000th time.
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