The definitive Sherlock Holmes

Author
Discussion

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
I have been rewatching the Granada Television of Holmes with Jeremy Brett from the1980s. I am solidly convinced that Brett is the apex of Holmes as he was written to be by Sir Doyle.
The set Granada built for Victorian England is itself its own character. Brilliant. That is some of the most top notch television production there was IMO. The obvious dedication and attention to detail is admirable. I wonder if I am alone, off in a dusty corner enjoying this oft overlooked masterpiece.

montecristo

1,043 posts

177 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Agreed. Basil Rathbone is pretty good too.

Carleton Hobbs on the radio was excellent.

Maybe coincidentally, that period saw the best TV versions of the three main detectives - Jeremy Brett, David Suchet, Joan Hickson.

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
montecristo said:
Agreed. Basil Rathbone is pretty good too.

Carleton Hobbs on the radio was excellent.

Maybe coincidentally, that period saw the best TV versions of the three main detectives - Jeremy Brett, David Suchet, Joan Hickson.
Agreed on that period. There was some dedication to craft going on then. I assume their budgets were healthy as well.

paulguitar

23,246 posts

113 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
I am solidly convinced that Brett is the apex of Holmes as he was written to be by Sir Doyle.
Completely agree, for me, Jeremey Brett effectively WAS Homes. I’d read most of the stories before the TV series started, and when I first saw Brett as Holmes, he was almost exactly what I had in my head already. Some of his little quirks and mannerisms were just amazingly done.

There was effectively a ‘who’s who’ of British character actors across the episodes too, some truly great actors appeared.

Johnnytheboy

24,498 posts

186 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
They seem to belong to an era where there was less desire to modernise the story and make it more 'relevant'.

Countdown

39,788 posts

196 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Brett is also my favourite but I think he became a bit too “hammy” in the later series. I also dont think it helped when the “Watson” character became a bit dense.

Johnspex

4,342 posts

184 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
There can never be Poirot or Holmes again. I realise there are the new versions of Holmes with Cumberbatch and Downey Jr but they're not 'classic' Holmes. The versions of Poirot recently just don't cut the mustard.

The other one that can never be done again is Jeeves and Wooster.
I've read all the Jeeves books and thought Hugh Laurie was good but Stephen Fry over played it and was too young relative to Wooster, that is he should have been more like an all-knowing uncle rather than a superior snot bag.

Just my opinion but naturally a correct one.

GBGaffer

546 posts

270 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
I concur with op's opinion about Brett - genius tinged with a touch of madness!

I have been Holmes fan since schooldays, and have listened to, and watched most of its variants.

I recently obtained the Audible audio book with Stephen Fry (another Sherlockian) narrating, and was pleased that it was an unabridged and unadorned reading of the complete works. I commend it to any Conan Doyle fans.

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
Completely agree, for me, Jeremey Brett effectively WAS Homes. I’d read most of the stories before the TV series started, and when I first saw Brett as Holmes, he was almost exactly what I had in my head already. Some of his little quirks and mannerisms were just amazingly done.

There was effectively a ‘who’s who’ of British character actors across the episodes too, some truly great actors appeared.
Absolutely. His quirks and twitches were acting precision. I really appreciated his efforts. You make a good point about guest appearances, there were some heavyweights. They would step in to portray a PM or Lordish roles. Charles Gray as Mycroft stood out for me.

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Johnnytheboy said:
They seem to belong to an era where there was less desire to modernise the story and make it more 'relevant'.
So, adherence to the literal but sharpening the focus?

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Brett is also my favourite but I think he became a bit too “hammy” in the later series. I also dont think it helped when the “Watson” character became a bit dense.
I actually thought this series portrayed Watson as a competent sidekick as opossed to the buffoonery of the Rathbone era Watson.
If anything, I feel that the second Granada Watson (Edward Hardwicke) was more studious than the first.

Countdown

39,788 posts

196 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Jimbeaux said:
Countdown said:
Brett is also my favourite but I think he became a bit too “hammy” in the later series. I also dont think it helped when the “Watson” character became a bit dense.
I actually thought this series portrayed Watson as a competent sidekick as opossed to the buffoonery of the Rathbone era Watson.
If anything, I feel that the second Granada Watson (Edward Hardwicke) was more studious than the first.
Apologies - you're right, I think I got them mixed up. Yes, Hardwicke was definitely more believable as the ex-Afghan war veteran. I also agree that the "Rathbone" Watson was quite buffoonish but I quite liked him for some reason smile

FourWheelDrift

88,475 posts

284 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Brett was Holmes IMHO. Rathbone started ok but when the films moved into the modern world and became WWII propaganda films they just felt odd.

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Apologies - you're right, I think I got them mixed up. Yes, Hardwicke was definitely more believable as the ex-Afghan war veteran. I also agree that the "Rathbone" Watson was quite buffoonish but I quite liked him for some reason smile
I enjoyed him as well as the comedy relief he was intended to be. smile (referring to the Rathbone Watson)
Some forget or may not have even realized that David Burke was Watson in the first season, replaced by Hardwicke for the remaining run.

Countdown

39,788 posts

196 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Brett was Holmes IMHO. Rathbone started ok but when the films moved into the modern world and became WWII propaganda films they just felt odd.
Pedant mode - was it not WW1? I really enjoyed those smile One of my favourite parts from "His Last Bow"

His Last Bow said:
"There's an east wind coming, Watson."

"I think not, Holmes. It is very warm."

"Good old Watson! You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared.

FourWheelDrift

88,475 posts

284 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Brett was Holmes IMHO. Rathbone started ok but when the films moved into the modern world and became WWII propaganda films they just felt odd.
Pedant mode - was it not WW1?
No, the 3rd film he made as Holmes starting the modern twist was trying to find a fictitious Lord Haw Haw character spreading Nazi propaganda in 1940s Britain - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes_and_... others continued the modern style, for example Holmes going over to the USA to find a missing bomb sight designer.

2xChevrons

3,181 posts

80 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
Agreed that Brett is by far the best portrayal of Holmes, and Edward Hardwicke does one of the best Watsons too, especially the way both characters and their portrayals mesh in the series.

Apparently Jeremy Brett was absolutely exacting about not only the accuracy of his portrayal but getting invested in the character. He saw a lot of his own personality, with its tendency towards professional obsessions and his mood swings, in Holmes and after while he felt that his own identity and the character began bleeding together.

When Brett's mental and physical health began to suffer, so did his work as Holmes (probably just as well in a way as it forced him, by rather unfortunate means, to give up on such a perfectionist portrayal) and that's when the adaptations became a bit hammy and staid because Brett wasn't able to give the same performance. Not a pleasant tale by any means, but it did result in what has to be =the= definitive Holmes.

Basil Rathbone did a good job but overall his portrayal was hampered by being teamed with the bumbling/comic relief version of Watson which was popular in the era. I think Peter Cushing played the character very well (probably my second favourite after Brett) but overall the effect was tarnished by his Watsons and the rather pulpy character of the Hammer films and BBC TV of the 1960s.


FourWheelDrift

88,475 posts

284 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
I also liked Tom Baker's Holmes in the BBCs Hound of the Baskervilles from 1982, 2 years before Brett started the ITV series.

Jimbeaux

Original Poster:

33,791 posts

231 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
I also liked Tom Baker's Holmes in the BBCs Hound of the Baskervilles from 1982, 2 years before Brett started the ITV series.
I have never viewed that. Thanks, off to Youtube or some other streaming site. smile

Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 19th February 23:57

Johnspex

4,342 posts

184 months

Wednesday 19th February 2020
quotequote all
With reference to Carleton Hobbs above. Clive Merrison was an excellent radio Holmes.