Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system

Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system

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Discussion

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
crankedup said:
s1962a said:
whilst I still have my marbles and dignity in my old age, i wouldnt mind operating a robot via remote control to lift me up and change me etc etc rather than a human being - if i can swear at an alexa type machine and have some food delivered to me, even better. Obviously if i've lost all my faculties then it doesn't really matter who or what does it - I probably wouldn't be in a position to care laugh
Let me cheer you up, within a very few years lifelike robots will be able to ‘assist’ and help you in so many ways!, hehe
I am sure that is automation we can all support wink

Randy Winkman

16,017 posts

188 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.

Elysium

13,755 posts

186 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors.

Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.

The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.

It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk


55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...

Mrr T

12,152 posts

264 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
55palfers said:
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...
Did you read the article before replying? I was replying to a post about in work benefits. I even say that in my post. You then link to an article about child benefit a universal benefit.

Interestingly about child benefit:
1. It's the UK government decision to subsidise children noting to do with the EU.
2. The UK government could place a residency restrict on claiming but do not.

I suspect they do not because any residency test would be difficult to monitor and it might encourage EU immigrants, who have left child at home, to bring them into the UK where the UK would then also have to pay for education and health care.

Randy Winkman

16,017 posts

188 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Elysium said:
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors.

Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.

The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.

It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk
True - but I'm not sure how robots could have helped my Dad.

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
My view is that this is broadly a question of short-term disruption for long-term benefit, though the long-term may be undermined by our Politician's being unable to put nuanced policy in place.

But what's most interesting is that the people that argued for the Minimum Wage and dismissed arguments that rising wages mean higher costs for buyers are now arguing the opposite; forcing wages up by limiting the supply of minimum-wage workers will increase the costs of fruit and what not. Pick one.

And of course the narrative that falling birth rates in the west and moving away from an economic model dependent on continuous economic growth is a direct contradiction of the mantra that immigration = economic growth.

The issue is hugely complex and the right approach is only apparent when you work up to the macro-economic picture, which only one or two commentators seem able to do.

Elysium

13,755 posts

186 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Elysium said:
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors.

Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.

The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.

It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk
True - but I'm not sure how robots could have helped my Dad.
The care services your Dad received will start to be automated in the relatively near future.

This article refers to an ONS analysis that home carers face a 50% probability that their jobs will be automated.

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-...

As you have already said, this work is currently being done by low paid immigrants. So the unintended consequence of this policy may well be increased healthcare costs, earlier implementation of automation and ultimately a reduction in the number of jobs in the sector.




55palfers

5,892 posts

163 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Mrr T said:
55palfers said:
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...
Did you read the article before replying? I was replying to a post about in work benefits. I even say that in my post. You then link to an article about child benefit a universal benefit.

Interestingly about child benefit:
1. It's the UK government decision to subsidise children noting to do with the EU.
2. The UK government could place a residency restrict on claiming but do not.

I suspect they do not because any residency test would be difficult to monitor and it might encourage EU immigrants, who have left child at home, to bring them into the UK where the UK would then also have to pay for education and health care.
Sigh.. I was suggesting your assumption that immigrants tend not to have children was maybe a little wide of the mark.

shed driver

2,138 posts

159 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Today I held the hand of a man who was distressed at the loss of his dog as he was facing the prospect of 24 hour care.

I'm sure a robot would have done this job more efficiently.

SD.

Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
shed driver said:
Today I held the hand of a man who was distressed at the loss of his dog as he was facing the prospect of 24 hour care.

I'm sure a robot would have done this job more efficiently.

SD.
How much did you get an hour?

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.


amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
smilesmilesmile

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.
Aren't you just describing "depressed wages by low skilled migration" with more words?

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.
Aren't you just describing "depressed wages by low skilled migration" with more words?
I think he's just trying to justify the views from a person who wants it both ways. Different sort of cake and eat it argument. Likewise care homes piping up are just making same points.

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
Aren't you just describing "depressed wages by low skilled migration" with more words?
Nope.

amusingduck

9,396 posts

135 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Stay in Bed Instead said:
amusingduck said:
Aren't you just describing "depressed wages by low skilled migration" with more words?
Nope.
What's the distinction you're trying to draw?

JagLover

42,265 posts

234 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.

2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.

Same person now says

2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
laugh

Even more fun if you spot how many who are supposedly "left wing" who denounce this measure that might potentially raises wages for the low paid.

Stay in Bed Instead

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
amusingduck said:
What's the distinction you're trying to draw?
The current wage is the correct wage and not depressed by low skilled immigration. Making a cup of coffee is a minimum wage job.