Home Secretary announces points-based immigration system
Discussion
crankedup said:
s1962a said:
whilst I still have my marbles and dignity in my old age, i wouldnt mind operating a robot via remote control to lift me up and change me etc etc rather than a human being - if i can swear at an alexa type machine and have some food delivered to me, even better. Obviously if i've lost all my faculties then it doesn't really matter who or what does it - I probably wouldn't be in a position to care
Let me cheer you up, within a very few years lifelike robots will be able to ‘assist’ and help you in so many ways!, It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors. Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.
The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.
It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...
55palfers said:
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...
Interestingly about child benefit:
1. It's the UK government decision to subsidise children noting to do with the EU.
2. The UK government could place a residency restrict on claiming but do not.
I suspect they do not because any residency test would be difficult to monitor and it might encourage EU immigrants, who have left child at home, to bring them into the UK where the UK would then also have to pay for education and health care.
Elysium said:
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors. Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.
The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.
It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk
My view is that this is broadly a question of short-term disruption for long-term benefit, though the long-term may be undermined by our Politician's being unable to put nuanced policy in place.
But what's most interesting is that the people that argued for the Minimum Wage and dismissed arguments that rising wages mean higher costs for buyers are now arguing the opposite; forcing wages up by limiting the supply of minimum-wage workers will increase the costs of fruit and what not. Pick one.
And of course the narrative that falling birth rates in the west and moving away from an economic model dependent on continuous economic growth is a direct contradiction of the mantra that immigration = economic growth.
The issue is hugely complex and the right approach is only apparent when you work up to the macro-economic picture, which only one or two commentators seem able to do.
But what's most interesting is that the people that argued for the Minimum Wage and dismissed arguments that rising wages mean higher costs for buyers are now arguing the opposite; forcing wages up by limiting the supply of minimum-wage workers will increase the costs of fruit and what not. Pick one.
And of course the narrative that falling birth rates in the west and moving away from an economic model dependent on continuous economic growth is a direct contradiction of the mantra that immigration = economic growth.
The issue is hugely complex and the right approach is only apparent when you work up to the macro-economic picture, which only one or two commentators seem able to do.
Randy Winkman said:
Elysium said:
Randy Winkman said:
It will be interesting to see how all this turns out. We just went through a few months where my father had a carer to help him wash and dress in the morning. Of the 8 fellas that came there wasn't a single one that was British. Didn't actually check their passports obviously but it was pretty apparent.
There are already issues with the availability of labour in a number of sectors. Robotics and automation are a reality, online fullfillment centres are replacing bricks and mortar retail and they are increasingly staffed by robots. Self driving technology will impact commerical and public transport in the near term.
The main barrier to automation is no longer technical, it is the availability of relatively cheap labour. If this policy ends that, then current progress will accelerate.
It might not look quite like this, but automation in the care industry is inevitable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4y8YAMPFhk
This article refers to an ONS analysis that home carers face a 50% probability that their jobs will be automated.
https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-...
As you have already said, this work is currently being done by low paid immigrants. So the unintended consequence of this policy may well be increased healthcare costs, earlier implementation of automation and ultimately a reduction in the number of jobs in the sector.
Mrr T said:
55palfers said:
Mrr T said:
Immigrants working on farms and in care home tend not to have children so in work benefits will be minimal.
£36M in 2012 it seems?https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/23/ch...
Interestingly about child benefit:
1. It's the UK government decision to subsidise children noting to do with the EU.
2. The UK government could place a residency restrict on claiming but do not.
I suspect they do not because any residency test would be difficult to monitor and it might encourage EU immigrants, who have left child at home, to bring them into the UK where the UK would then also have to pay for education and health care.
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
amusingduck said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Isn't that because the minimum wage for a low skilled migrant will have to be higher in future if they are to gain entry. So if the UK natural is not willing to do the work for current wages then the wages will have to increase to attract one or the other or both.2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
FiF said:
One observation I encountered yesterday.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
2015-2019 There is absolutely no evidence that wages have been depressed by migration of low skilled workers.
Same person now says
2020 Well you're going to have to pay more for your coffee because of proposed immigration system.
Even more fun if you spot how many who are supposedly "left wing" who denounce this measure that might potentially raises wages for the low paid.
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