Garage misdiagnosed problem - who pays to put right?
Discussion
2 part problem. bought a 62 plate Octavia VRS private @4k with 135k on. next day on a run it gets to temp then the heaters go cold. kid who sold the car said he knew of no issues, hes got radio silent at the moment but i'll come back to him at a later date. wanted to know whats wrong with the car.
armchair diagnoses via forum points to head gasket. little pressure in the coolant but not using any and running well. happened to a few on the forum, causing similar issues. took to a VAG specialist who said it was the thermostate. car need cambelt and pump doing anayway. i asked several times is it defo not the HG, even insisting they did a sniff test which came back negative. aksed what would happen if once the work is done the same thing still happened and the garage said theyd look after me therefore paid the £620 for thermostate, belt and pump.
problem persists. heats fine until 90 degress and then goes cold at idle. revving the engine make it go warm again. garage now says its the heater matrix blocked. to be fiar they can suffer with this but that wouldnt explain the heater working fine all the way upto temp. i assume at idle the gasses are leaking into the collant casuing an air lock, and when you rev the negine the pressure pushes it through.
i bought a sniff test off ebay, blue liquid turns green if CO2 in the coolant and it comes back positive. checked again and same result. checked the test kit on my golf and came back negative. rang garage and took it back again. they did 2 of their 'sniff tests' (wife was there not me so unsure what they did) and came back negative! she got the ebay one and it shows positive. they rang me at work with a price for HG and said £750. i said id be inclined just to pay the differnece between what i have and what it should have cost in the first place. he said he'd get back to me.
when i rang he'd gone home. we're back in there tomo where he rang the wife and said he was getting another snif test tomo.
where do i stand? im going to insist on just paying the difference, whish i assume will be £400, and not a penny more. will mean ive sunk £1000 into a £4k motor, i'll be chasing the previous owner too as its clear hes had my life
armchair diagnoses via forum points to head gasket. little pressure in the coolant but not using any and running well. happened to a few on the forum, causing similar issues. took to a VAG specialist who said it was the thermostate. car need cambelt and pump doing anayway. i asked several times is it defo not the HG, even insisting they did a sniff test which came back negative. aksed what would happen if once the work is done the same thing still happened and the garage said theyd look after me therefore paid the £620 for thermostate, belt and pump.
problem persists. heats fine until 90 degress and then goes cold at idle. revving the engine make it go warm again. garage now says its the heater matrix blocked. to be fiar they can suffer with this but that wouldnt explain the heater working fine all the way upto temp. i assume at idle the gasses are leaking into the collant casuing an air lock, and when you rev the negine the pressure pushes it through.
i bought a sniff test off ebay, blue liquid turns green if CO2 in the coolant and it comes back positive. checked again and same result. checked the test kit on my golf and came back negative. rang garage and took it back again. they did 2 of their 'sniff tests' (wife was there not me so unsure what they did) and came back negative! she got the ebay one and it shows positive. they rang me at work with a price for HG and said £750. i said id be inclined just to pay the differnece between what i have and what it should have cost in the first place. he said he'd get back to me.
when i rang he'd gone home. we're back in there tomo where he rang the wife and said he was getting another snif test tomo.
where do i stand? im going to insist on just paying the difference, whish i assume will be £400, and not a penny more. will mean ive sunk £1000 into a £4k motor, i'll be chasing the previous owner too as its clear hes had my life
I might be missing something here, but isn't the 'unnecessary work' just the thermostat - probably about £10 part?
The garage have tried this first... it hasn't fixed it so now they are on to the head gasket.
The water pump and timing belt you said needed doing anyway, so you can't count that in the equation.
The garage have tried this first... it hasn't fixed it so now they are on to the head gasket.
The water pump and timing belt you said needed doing anyway, so you can't count that in the equation.
ghost83 said:
Nothing to do with previous owner
Depends what was in advert decription.Anyway HGs can be hard to diagnose and a sniff test even dipper test are not always a true indicator. Try to resolve a solution with them, as better on your side than not. Buying a new car without knowing history does put you on a back foot.
Thesprucegoose said:
Depends what was in advert decription.
Anyway HGs can be hard to diagnose and a sniff test even dipper test are not always a true indicator. Try to resolve a solution with them, as better on your side than not. Buying a new car without knowing history does put you on a back foot.
It doesn’t matter what was in the description, a car can be mint or in good health one day and not the next, this is what happens when you buy second hand cars it’s wear and tear! Anyway HGs can be hard to diagnose and a sniff test even dipper test are not always a true indicator. Try to resolve a solution with them, as better on your side than not. Buying a new car without knowing history does put you on a back foot.
It’s nothing to do with the previous owner simple as
A magic solution that diagnoses and repairs everything to a menu price and perfect result just doesn’t exist - any more than it exists in any other “problem solving” endeavour.
You bought an old car with a tonne of miles on it that someone else was probably selling because it was an old car with a tonne of miles on it.
Now it’s broke and from what I can see of it the garage have gone gently with the easy options first to help you minimise expense. I’d say you should take this on the chin and pay the man to fix it.
You bought an old car with a tonne of miles on it that someone else was probably selling because it was an old car with a tonne of miles on it.
Now it’s broke and from what I can see of it the garage have gone gently with the easy options first to help you minimise expense. I’d say you should take this on the chin and pay the man to fix it.
Where do you stand? In a difficult place, unfortunately.
Private sale, 135,000 mile car. There's a danger in using internet diagnosis, too many variables and, with the greatest of respect, people who might not be quite as knowledgeable as they think they are. Likely to have little comeback on seller unless they're happy to accept some responsibilty, however, presumably your test drive, or if you're not mechanically knowledgeable, the knowledgeable person who looked over the car for you didn't find any faults. If you didn't, might be difficult to prove the seller could reasonably have known. Car's service history? Caveat Emptor.
If you trust the garage, you might be better letting them sort it; if you self-diagnose and they act on your instructions, you can't complain if that doesn't solve it but you'll still pay.
It's unfortunate but it's one of the risks with private sales.
Private sale, 135,000 mile car. There's a danger in using internet diagnosis, too many variables and, with the greatest of respect, people who might not be quite as knowledgeable as they think they are. Likely to have little comeback on seller unless they're happy to accept some responsibilty, however, presumably your test drive, or if you're not mechanically knowledgeable, the knowledgeable person who looked over the car for you didn't find any faults. If you didn't, might be difficult to prove the seller could reasonably have known. Car's service history? Caveat Emptor.
If you trust the garage, you might be better letting them sort it; if you self-diagnose and they act on your instructions, you can't complain if that doesn't solve it but you'll still pay.
It's unfortunate but it's one of the risks with private sales.
No ideas for a name said:
I might be missing something here, but isn't the 'unnecessary work' just the thermostat - probably about £10 part?
The garage have tried this first... it hasn't fixed it so now they are on to the head gasket.
The water pump and timing belt you said needed doing anyway, so you can't count that in the equation.
That was my take on it too. Its not like a heap of unecessary work has been done.The garage have tried this first... it hasn't fixed it so now they are on to the head gasket.
The water pump and timing belt you said needed doing anyway, so you can't count that in the equation.
Another way of looking at it perhaps : what if the garage had blindly accepted the internet diagnosis that you provided them with and replaced the head gasket. And again the fault was still present? What would you expect the garage do?
Its very difficult in circumstances like these but i must admit, when a customer approaches me and tells me what the fault is on their car, I just do it. In fairness the diagnosis is quite often correct, common faults are well documented online. On the occasions its not correct, the customer gets charged as normal and we begin the diagnosis if the customer wishes... at the customers cost of course.
Its very difficult in circumstances like these but i must admit, when a customer approaches me and tells me what the fault is on their car, I just do it. In fairness the diagnosis is quite often correct, common faults are well documented online. On the occasions its not correct, the customer gets charged as normal and we begin the diagnosis if the customer wishes... at the customers cost of course.
Thesprucegoose said:
ghost83 said:
It doesn’t matter what was in the description,
It is enshrined in law, The car must match the seller’s description.We might suspect the driver knew of an issue, and we’d probably be right. But we couldn’t prove it.
So it’s a dead horse and best to just accept that you’ve had to sink a few quid you weren’t expecting to.
On the plus side you’ll have a great car with all the bits you knew needing doing and a few hundred quid extra for a part known to have issues fixed.
Sorry to hear it’s not been the buy you wanted, but you do win some and lose some in the used market.
Unless it can be proved that the seller has expertise in selling cars, I.e. a driveway trader or some such, you do not have the minimum 6 months (might be 3 months, happy to be corrected) protection that would otherwise apply. If the seller described the car to the best of his ability, presuming that they were not in any way an expert, then this is a case of caveat emptor and you have no comeback whatsoever. The responsibility to carry out due diligence prior to sale will rest with you.
I do empathise, however, but I am not sure what comeback you have on the garage either, although from what you are saying they may work with you on this.
A 135k mile VRS will likely come with issues, so to be expected really. Might be one to chalk up to experience.
I do empathise, however, but I am not sure what comeback you have on the garage either, although from what you are saying they may work with you on this.
A 135k mile VRS will likely come with issues, so to be expected really. Might be one to chalk up to experience.
As everyone else has said, the 'stat was the obvious thing to try first, it would be around £100 to have fitted at most, the other bits as said were service items that needed doing.
They sound like a good garage imho.
When you say it gets to 90ºc no problem, but then at idle it goes cold, are you talking about the coolant temperature or the climate blowers?
Can you get your hands to the heater matrix? Can you feel the inlet and output pipes to see what they are doing? Maybe easier from bulkhead engine bay side.
Are the flapper motors working OK? Have you scanned it?
There are two, one for direction and one for hot/cold, well recirc vs fresh.
Other thing, do just make sure it is bled properly and no air locks in there.
Take top off coolant, rev it to 1500rpm and wait for it to get to temperature. See if it drops at all. Looking on Skoda forums it seems these get lots of air trapped.
I would just check the above before moving further.
Good luck.
They sound like a good garage imho.
When you say it gets to 90ºc no problem, but then at idle it goes cold, are you talking about the coolant temperature or the climate blowers?
Can you get your hands to the heater matrix? Can you feel the inlet and output pipes to see what they are doing? Maybe easier from bulkhead engine bay side.
Are the flapper motors working OK? Have you scanned it?
There are two, one for direction and one for hot/cold, well recirc vs fresh.
Other thing, do just make sure it is bled properly and no air locks in there.
Take top off coolant, rev it to 1500rpm and wait for it to get to temperature. See if it drops at all. Looking on Skoda forums it seems these get lots of air trapped.
I would just check the above before moving further.
Good luck.
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