Flexi tap connectors. Burst.
Discussion
Yesterday afternoon I was very luckily stood in the kitchen when the Flexi hose to the hot water tap burst about an inch below the tap. My wife stood screaming while I turned the water off at the mains and opened the taps to release pressure. After clearing up a considerable amount of water but no real damage I sat with a cup of tea contemplating.
20 seconds of flow caused a large puddle.
1 minute of flow would have caused a very big puddle.
10 minutes would have left an enormous amount of damage.
1 hour would have completely flooded the ground floor of the house causing serious damage.
6 hours would leave the house uninhabitable and major work needed before the property fit to return to.
So after a bit of research today it's suggested that Flexi hoses have a 5 year lifespan. Luckily, or unluckily for me all the plumbing was renewed in my house when I bought it 7 years ago. So it would seem my hoses are in need of renewing, of which there are quite a few.
I've chatted to a few of the plumbers in work who seemed like they see this all the time. Which I find quite shocking. I remember plumbers 20 years ago saying they would never use Flexi hoses and they were only for bodging and DIY. I always wrote them off as being stuck in their ways. It has seemed that all plumbers use them, yet at the same time accept they can easily split.
So, what do we do. Should I swap out all my flexis for the best quality I can find, what would they be?? Or should I hard line them all In copper. I have a torch and all the kit to do it but it's a fair amount of work and I'm not massively confident. I don't want to employ a plumber if they will just come and bang in cheap flexis anyway. I'd be back to square one.
Any thoughts?
20 seconds of flow caused a large puddle.
1 minute of flow would have caused a very big puddle.
10 minutes would have left an enormous amount of damage.
1 hour would have completely flooded the ground floor of the house causing serious damage.
6 hours would leave the house uninhabitable and major work needed before the property fit to return to.
So after a bit of research today it's suggested that Flexi hoses have a 5 year lifespan. Luckily, or unluckily for me all the plumbing was renewed in my house when I bought it 7 years ago. So it would seem my hoses are in need of renewing, of which there are quite a few.
I've chatted to a few of the plumbers in work who seemed like they see this all the time. Which I find quite shocking. I remember plumbers 20 years ago saying they would never use Flexi hoses and they were only for bodging and DIY. I always wrote them off as being stuck in their ways. It has seemed that all plumbers use them, yet at the same time accept they can easily split.
So, what do we do. Should I swap out all my flexis for the best quality I can find, what would they be?? Or should I hard line them all In copper. I have a torch and all the kit to do it but it's a fair amount of work and I'm not massively confident. I don't want to employ a plumber if they will just come and bang in cheap flexis anyway. I'd be back to square one.
Any thoughts?
Edited by rufusgti on Tuesday 25th February 21:01
There are literally millions of the things fitted and not that many go pop. I've personally probably fitted 500 or so and never had one go (yet) and i've probably only seen less than 10 go pop in my career. They come with the taps now and are completely commonplace to fit all types of taps.
The most common cause of failures that i've seen are a contact point on the flexi against something (the movement causing it to rub and damage it) and bad installation where the flexi has been twisted or kinked leading to premature failure.
To be honest you were probably just a bit unlucky although I have no doubt the quality of the the cheap hoses from places like Screwfix is not the best.
The most common cause of failures that i've seen are a contact point on the flexi against something (the movement causing it to rub and damage it) and bad installation where the flexi has been twisted or kinked leading to premature failure.
To be honest you were probably just a bit unlucky although I have no doubt the quality of the the cheap hoses from places like Screwfix is not the best.
I've always wondered how quickly serious damage would occur from a leak, and I think your assessment is likely fairly reasonable.
On the subject of flexi tails I'm not qualified to comment, but I will be following with interest as a new Franke tap I've bought for our new kitchen was supplied with flexi tails and I feel I'd need a very strong justification to not use what was supplied (by the manufacturer, not the retailer).
Are flexi tails inherently weak? Surely no worse than washing machine / dishwasher supply pipes and there's no alternative to those?
On the subject of plumbers seeing lots of failures remember they are seeing a skewed set of samples. Noone calls a plumber out for a cup of tea and admiration of a working set of tap tails.
On the subject of flexi tails I'm not qualified to comment, but I will be following with interest as a new Franke tap I've bought for our new kitchen was supplied with flexi tails and I feel I'd need a very strong justification to not use what was supplied (by the manufacturer, not the retailer).
Are flexi tails inherently weak? Surely no worse than washing machine / dishwasher supply pipes and there's no alternative to those?
On the subject of plumbers seeing lots of failures remember they are seeing a skewed set of samples. Noone calls a plumber out for a cup of tea and admiration of a working set of tap tails.
If they were that fragile I'd have expected home insurance to be including a question about whether there were any flexi connectors in the home and if so quoting a higher price. They don't ask about them so that suggests to me they aren't bothered and that in turn suggests they don't pop often.
kev1974 said:
If they were that fragile I'd have expected home insurance to be including a question about whether there were any flexi connectors in the home and if so quoting a higher price. They don't ask about them so that suggests to me they aren't bothered and that in turn suggests they don't pop often.
I guess they've addressed that by increasing excesses on escape of water claims.kev1974 said:
If they were that fragile I'd have expected home insurance to be including a question about whether there were any flexi connectors in the home and if so quoting a higher price. They don't ask about them so that suggests to me they aren't bothered and that in turn suggests they don't pop often.
Exactly. Although anything that sees mains pressure is potentially a risk. If your a worrier then why not fit a surestop. The latest one has an app control, so you can have your water off when you are out the house. I recently replaced a kitchen sink and tap, for cosmetic reasons, I know for a fact the tap with flexi hoses was fitted 13 years ago.
There have been no leaks, from the flexi pipes in that time, the only thing I could see was some surface rust.
I would have re used them but they were not long enough to reach the new tap, in its new position
I bought new flexi pipes, I'll have a look at them in another 13 years!
There have been no leaks, from the flexi pipes in that time, the only thing I could see was some surface rust.
I would have re used them but they were not long enough to reach the new tap, in its new position
I bought new flexi pipes, I'll have a look at them in another 13 years!
rufusgti said:
My wife stood screaming while I turned the water off at the mains
That's quite a good quote; the feminists will hate it I've used flexitails in my house since 2003 and all OK so far. I have a cat flap so that will act as a 'water release valve' if the worst happens!
Actually there was one push fit connector which I think I didn't fit properly as it went BANG in the cupboard - like you I was right there and dealt with it before any damage was done.
Fit a cat flap...
markcoznottz said:
kev1974 said:
If they were that fragile I'd have expected home insurance to be including a question about whether there were any flexi connectors in the home and if so quoting a higher price. They don't ask about them so that suggests to me they aren't bothered and that in turn suggests they don't pop often.
Exactly. Although anything that sees mains pressure is potentially a risk. If your a worrier then why not fit a surestop. The latest one has an app control, so you can have your water off when you are out the house. I'm surprised they haven't come out with one that automatically cuts the water if it sees sudden heavy flow that goes on continuously for say half an hour or more. With some sort of one hour override button for when you're watering the garden or jet washing the patio. I'd buy that.
heads off to dragon's den
Thanks for the replies. One suggested the insurers would be apprehensive if it were a problem. Today I read this https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe...
Which suggests 22% of flooding is caused by flexis so maybe they are starting to be concerned.
But yes, there must be literaly millions. I was already thinking I'd change the taps so I'll renew the flexis there and visually inspect the rest of them. Check how they fit and make sure there's no swelling or fraying.
I do like the idea of a sure stop. Already been looking Into those.
Which suggests 22% of flooding is caused by flexis so maybe they are starting to be concerned.
But yes, there must be literaly millions. I was already thinking I'd change the taps so I'll renew the flexis there and visually inspect the rest of them. Check how they fit and make sure there's no swelling or fraying.
I do like the idea of a sure stop. Already been looking Into those.
kev1974 said:
I'm surprised they haven't come out with one that automatically cuts the water if it sees sudden heavy flow that goes on continuously for say half an hour or more. With some sort of one hour override button for when you're watering the garden or jet washing the patio. I'd buy that.
They do exist, and have done for some time. A common argument against them is, as the OP touched on, that a time period long enough not to cause nuisance trips (eg due to a long shower) would also be long enough to have caused significant damage. They've also been quite expensive which needs considering when the risk of occuranc is likely quite low. CypSIdders said:
I recently replaced a kitchen sink and tap, for cosmetic reasons, I know for a fact the tap with flexi hoses was fitted 13 years ago.
There have been no leaks, from the flexi pipes in that time, the only thing I could see was some surface rust.
I would have re used them but they were not long enough to reach the new tap, in its new position
I bought new flexi pipes, I'll have a look at them in another 13 years!
Best to do due diligence. People spend hundreds a year on coffee or car finance, but will not spend on basic hour maintenance it's bizarre There have been no leaks, from the flexi pipes in that time, the only thing I could see was some surface rust.
I would have re used them but they were not long enough to reach the new tap, in its new position
I bought new flexi pipes, I'll have a look at them in another 13 years!
rufusgti said:
Thanks for the replies. One suggested the insurers would be apprehensive if it were a problem. Today I read this https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/blog/how-a-10-pipe...
Which suggests 22% of flooding is caused by flexis so maybe they are starting to be concerned.
But yes, there must be literaly millions. I was already thinking I'd change the taps so I'll renew the flexis there and visually inspect the rest of them. Check how they fit and make sure there's no swelling or fraying.
I do like the idea of a sure stop. Already been looking Into those.
I looked into surestop. After reading about so many exploding and flooding the kitchen I thought better not. I'll stick to the good old fashioned way to stop the water.Which suggests 22% of flooding is caused by flexis so maybe they are starting to be concerned.
But yes, there must be literaly millions. I was already thinking I'd change the taps so I'll renew the flexis there and visually inspect the rest of them. Check how they fit and make sure there's no swelling or fraying.
I do like the idea of a sure stop. Already been looking Into those.
LookAtMyCat said:
I have no doubt the quality of the the cheap hoses from places like Screwfix is not the best.
Unfortunately this ^^^ is an issue, I wouldn't buy cheap hoses off ebay but I assumed that the ones in Toolstation / Screwfix like the majority of their stuff, is the same as the merchants, just sensibly priced.However I've had to replace two within 2 years after the top of the hose corroded reducing the opening to a pinhole.
Although I suspect every supplier gets a bad batch occasionally,which is the joy of cheap imports.
Our hot tap flexi burst under the kitchen sink in our old house, we had a combi so it kicked in and within no time was pumping rather hot water out all over the kitchen floor.
Luckily we were in at the time and I was able to get it and isolate it but it would’ve caused a right mess if we hadn’t been home at the time plus the boiler would’ve been running flat out for however long.
Luckily we were in at the time and I was able to get it and isolate it but it would’ve caused a right mess if we hadn’t been home at the time plus the boiler would’ve been running flat out for however long.
I didn't realise this was a thing. I had a quick google and this page has some interesting information (from Australia but still relevant) -
https://plumbingconnection.com.au/bursting-the-fle...
I have a couple of flexi hose connections to my toilets, which I could easily replace with "proper" plumbing. I might just do that after reading that article!
https://plumbingconnection.com.au/bursting-the-fle...
I have a couple of flexi hose connections to my toilets, which I could easily replace with "proper" plumbing. I might just do that after reading that article!
Yes, they are a quick and easy solution to the problem in hand, but have a very finite life and unlike the equivalent gas hose, often do not have a date of manufacture.
I have had one fail in my kitchen, over the weekend, when I was away from the house. Came home to the sound of water escaping under pressure, and all of the electrics off.
Fortunately it cant have been long, I got about 15l of water off the floor, which was concave so had pooled in the middle. Seriously lucky. I had identified them as old and bought replacements, but had yet to complete the job.
A flex should last 10-15 years and might do 20, like a diaphragm in an expansion tank or toilet flush valve, but unlike the other items on the list the failure is often catastrophic. Plastic plumbing also contains rubber seals.
Another option is corrugated flexi copper or stainless, or doing it in rigid copper.
I have had one fail in my kitchen, over the weekend, when I was away from the house. Came home to the sound of water escaping under pressure, and all of the electrics off.
Fortunately it cant have been long, I got about 15l of water off the floor, which was concave so had pooled in the middle. Seriously lucky. I had identified them as old and bought replacements, but had yet to complete the job.
A flex should last 10-15 years and might do 20, like a diaphragm in an expansion tank or toilet flush valve, but unlike the other items on the list the failure is often catastrophic. Plastic plumbing also contains rubber seals.
Another option is corrugated flexi copper or stainless, or doing it in rigid copper.
As it happened , so inspired by this thread, I carried out an inspection of the Flexi pipes I have in my house (that I could see, I have a total of 8 feeding various mixer taps and mono taps)
All seemed ok until I got to this one, which is In a bathroom feeding a single hot tap.
I'm not sure why i didn't notice this before now but this one definitely doesn't look ok. Brown spots on it, what looks like flux over the braid and the isolator. Not good I presume. Installed in 2013.
Anyway I've isolated it tonight and will replace it on friday. I'll probably replace the one next to it too.
Link to pic
https://ibb.co/JvyDCg7
All seemed ok until I got to this one, which is In a bathroom feeding a single hot tap.
I'm not sure why i didn't notice this before now but this one definitely doesn't look ok. Brown spots on it, what looks like flux over the braid and the isolator. Not good I presume. Installed in 2013.
Anyway I've isolated it tonight and will replace it on friday. I'll probably replace the one next to it too.
Link to pic
https://ibb.co/JvyDCg7
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