Defence review - Battle tanks - any need for them?

[Ayahuasca]

There is another defence review underway, and it is suspected that Dominic Cummings a) is in charge of it and b) wants to get rid of much of the army, including its tanks.

He may have a point - In the age of the attack helicopter and unmanned drones, is there any need for a single-purpose, expensive, large, heavy, expensive, manned, expensive, tracked vehicles with a turret and a gun?

[GOATever]

Ayahuasca said:

There is another defence review underway, and it is suspected that Dominic Cummings a) is in charge of it and b) wants to get rid of much of the army, including its tanks.

He may have a point - In the age of the attack helicopter and unmanned drones, is there any need for a single-purpose, expensive, large, heavy, expensive, manned, expensive, tracked vehicles with a turret and a gun?

They are as pointless as big multi gunned warships.

[abzmike]

It depends what the ongoing role of the army is. Do we expect to be invading any countries or repelling an invasion of the UK with them? I’d guess probably not, so worth while questioning the value of them.

[AAGR]

Store them, for sure. But ....

Just as long as you don't collect them, and spend ages sending them individually to Bovington.

Here in Dorset one of the 'joys' of motoring is to get stuck, on main roads, behind enormous transporters taking Challengers to/from the testing grounds.

[wolfracesonic]

Seeing as this thread will no doubt attract the tank experts, what happened to all the Challenger I models, scrapped or were they converted into Challenger 2s?

[Moulder]

Lease them out for nothing but the person leasing has to pay for maintenance.

They would still be operational in case something happens but at zero cost.

Some green lanes around here and a few pay and play sites so happy to put my name down for something on the smaller side.

[Carnage]

If you wish to take and hold ground; tanks are essential.

While the other options mentioned can dominate certain areas of the battle space, only infantry and tanks possess the capability to maintain control of the ground, supported by other assets.

CR2 is obsolescent other than in armour and Warrior is well out of date, although the replacement looks to have fixed the worst issues.

A better question might be does the British Army need manned tanks?

Fun fact - the Army also has more horses than tanks.

[Smiler.]

Funny, I saw a post about the BAOR after the withdrawal of the final British Army contingent from Germany this week & though exactly the same.

[Mastodon2]

GOATever said:

They are as pointless as big multi gunned warships.

Well that is patently false, but don't let the facts get in way of a pithy statement.

[Bigends]

Challenger 1 was sold to Jordan I believe. Challenger 2 is worlds apart

[TTwiggy]

Has Cummings added military strategist to his CV then? Or is this another area where ‘don’t need experts’?

[LandRoverManiac]

I don't think tanks are going anywhere anytime soon - all the while a potential opposing force has plenty of armour (cough Russia cough) it always makes sense to have tanks of your own.

They might possibly work out that it's cheaper to retain CR2 than funding a next generation tank / whatever replacement. There was IIRC a possible route with upgunning them with the Rheinmetall 120? It would make sense on a logistics level if nothing else.

I think most of the spare money has been spent on F-35s and big floating objects to fly them off....

Edit - Not a tank expert by any means - but do have an interest in them (certainly the mechanical side).

[Zirconia]

TTwiggy said:

Has Cummings added military strategist to his CV then? Or is this another area where ‘don’t need experts’?

No need for aircraft carriers when any kid with a drone can sink em. Probably the same for tanks, not sinking them that is but if you can take out a massive carrier then tanks must be easy peasy to knock out. Simples.

[davebem]

In a conventional war or battle, can you take and hold ground with a drone?

[LandRoverManiac]

davebem said:

In a conventional war or battle, can you take and hold ground with a drone?

Drone tanks on the other hand..... I've seen Star Wars you know.

[TriumphStag3.0V8]

Zirconia said:

No need for aircraft carriers when any kid with a drone can sink em. Probably the same for tanks, not sinking them that is but if you can take out a massive carrier then tanks must be easy peasy to knock out. Simples.

I must have missed the news article about a kid with a drone taking out a carrier. Can you provide a link please?

[dai1983]

Unpopular opinion I have is putting most of the Royal Marines trades into the army or RN. If you need mechanics, clerks, stores etc you just commando train volunteers from other parts of forces like the Paras. Or they can continue to ping Marines to do those roles who can’t be arsed and end up doing a st job or leaving.

Would put signallers and especially drivers (aimers really) into the same category but those branches are being closed and everyone is expected to be driver and sigs trained

[GOATever]

Mastodon2 said:

Well that is patently false, but don't let the facts get in way of a pithy statement.

Really? How the hell are dinosaurs like tanks of much use in modern warfare then?

[borcy]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

Zirconia said:

No need for aircraft carriers when any kid with a drone can sink em. Probably the same for tanks, not sinking them that is but if you can take out a massive carrier then tanks must be easy peasy to knock out. Simples.

I must have missed the news article about a kid with a drone taking out a carrier. Can you provide a link please?

I believe it was something Dominic Cummings said a little while back as he's dead set against the carriers.

[Gecko1978]

TriumphStag3.0V8 said:

Zirconia said:

No need for aircraft carriers when any kid with a drone can sink em. Probably the same for tanks, not sinking them that is but if you can take out a massive carrier then tanks must be easy peasy to knock out. Simples.

I must have missed the news article about a kid with a drone taking out a carrier. Can you provide a link please?

I think he means iran attacking ships in the gulf. But I don't recall a modern aircraft carrier being taken out by a drone from currys with some C4 glued toi
It.

Defense is a good way of driving forward technology and also spending on R&D often leads to other applications. Getting rid of tanks seems like a bad idea if we have to ever put soldiers on the ground somewhere hostile. Like most defence spending the best weapons are the ones you don't have to use by having them ready every day.

Trident never once used to end the world but kept the end of the world at bay. Typhoons never used to defend the UK but often intercept other nations aircraft its better cat an.mouse games than having any other nation thinking we might be a soft target.

Want to cut costs here are a few ideas

HS2
Foreign aid (as aid not the bribes we pay for trade)
650 MPs, god knows how many lords, MSP, Welsh assembly members effectively 3 parliaments in the UK.