Will China be brought to account?
Discussion
So this Coronavirus is the third sh*tstorm China has unleashed on the world this century, and the most deadly and impactful (the other two being SARS and bird flu). There are two sets of charges against them:
1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
Craigyp79 said:
Given that Western Countries have never been held to account to the evils that they wrought on the rest of the world in the past I'm not sure why anyone would think that China somehow owes anything to anyone...
Some people did bad stuff years ago so no point telling anyone off for doing bad stuff now. Is that what you are saying?
Blue One said:
So this Coronavirus is the third sh*tstorm China has unleashed on the world this century, and the most deadly and impactful (the other two being SARS and bird flu). There are two sets of charges against them:
1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
Theres a lucrative career waiting for you at www.freeppiclaims.com1. Economic/Human; cost, damage, death, health, disruption etc
2. Nature: barbaric treatment of animals, no effective action to manage transference of illness from animals to humans despite two previous instances
Beyond that, and not directly related, is the fact that almost any animal extinction story, or ecological disaster seems to have China's fingerprints on it (ivory trade/poaching, tiger hunting, shark fins, rainforest destruction etc).
The Chinese really have a lot of answer for! Despite that, I have a feeling they will emerge from this latest crisis stronger than ever as the world is now almost totally dependant on Chinese goods, money and support.
Ideally, some international court should slap real restrictions on China and make sure they make real changes to stop this kind of thing being repeated and to roll-back their impact on animals and nature.
Thoughts?
First its got to be proven, and there are lots of differing theories beyond someone eating a dodgy Bat.
Then, how do you punish an entire nation ?
Really, once this is over China needs to be honest an open about what its going to do, I suspect that this really wasnt some master plan by them, us or anyone else as the conspiracy theorists say.
China in some ways is modern and progressive, but a lot of it is pretty medieval, with Smart Phones, needs to be some full and frank discussion about hygiene, human rights and animal cruelty, plus a suggestion to perhaps leave some items off the menu, or at least cook them.
But, lets not get cocky and assume the moral high ground, we created BSE not that long ago.
Then, how do you punish an entire nation ?
Really, once this is over China needs to be honest an open about what its going to do, I suspect that this really wasnt some master plan by them, us or anyone else as the conspiracy theorists say.
China in some ways is modern and progressive, but a lot of it is pretty medieval, with Smart Phones, needs to be some full and frank discussion about hygiene, human rights and animal cruelty, plus a suggestion to perhaps leave some items off the menu, or at least cook them.
But, lets not get cocky and assume the moral high ground, we created BSE not that long ago.
thebraketester said:
We did, but I don’t remember that we infected the entire world with it unless my memory is incorrect.
Nope it didn't, but it was an example of doing stuff badly, in an unnatural way that caused a disease.It would have done if globally everyone had a mad craving for British Mad beefburgers, or actually, no they would be horse so would need to be actual beef.
J4CKO said:
Nope it didn't, but it was an example of doing stuff badly, in an unnatural way that caused a disease.
It would have done if globally everyone had a mad craving for British Mad beefburgers, or actually, no they would be horse so would need to be actual beef.
Yes, but this is the THIRD TIME China has caused a global health crisis in the last 20 yrs, there's something systematically wrong with the way they do things that needs to change and IMO they need to made to do this.It would have done if globally everyone had a mad craving for British Mad beefburgers, or actually, no they would be horse so would need to be actual beef.
We're not looking to past 'bad things' generally, we're talking about a modern global superpower that has caused global health pandemics three times in 20 years, not 'who invaded what, and this to them' in 1891 or whatever...
Getragdogleg said:
Craigyp79 said:
Given that Western Countries have never been held to account to the evils that they wrought on the rest of the world in the past I'm not sure why anyone would think that China somehow owes anything to anyone...
Some people did bad stuff years ago so no point telling anyone off for doing bad stuff now. Is that what you are saying?
I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
Well no they're not going to be held directly to account for running the bat-banquet, or whatever it was. After all, who are you gonna sue ? Xi ? Wuhan province ? The bat chompers ?
But one of the clear consequences is going to be a move away from China as a supplier. Could be 'naturally', as companies come to individual decisions that the cost of re- or near- shoring is less than the extended supply chain risk. Or it could be more directed, in the Huawei way, where global governments either refuse to deal or exert pressure on national buyers to find alternatives.
There could even be quite overt economic aggression, for instance US gov telling its tech firms they can ignore any China held patents and they will get govt cover.
But one of the clear consequences is going to be a move away from China as a supplier. Could be 'naturally', as companies come to individual decisions that the cost of re- or near- shoring is less than the extended supply chain risk. Or it could be more directed, in the Huawei way, where global governments either refuse to deal or exert pressure on national buyers to find alternatives.
There could even be quite overt economic aggression, for instance US gov telling its tech firms they can ignore any China held patents and they will get govt cover.
Countdown said:
What about the stuff we’re doing now to screw up other countries?
I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
What stuff and has it caused a global economic meltdown?I’m not saying either is acceptable but it’s the height of hypocrisy to try and hold China “accountable” when you look at some of the stuff that the UK and US are involved in.
China knew about this since November still let people out infecting the world.
And you know the deaths
J4CKO said:
First its got to be proven, and there are lots of differing theories beyond someone eating a dodgy Bat.
Then, how do you punish an entire nation ?
Really, once this is over China needs to be honest an open about what its going to do, I suspect that this really wasnt some master plan by them, us or anyone else as the conspiracy theorists say.
China in some ways is modern and progressive, but a lot of it is pretty medieval, with Smart Phones, needs to be some full and frank discussion about hygiene, human rights and animal cruelty, plus a suggestion to perhaps leave some items off the menu, or at least cook them.
But, lets not get cocky and assume the moral high ground, we created BSE not that long ago.
Haven't they already confirmed that they are banning those types of markets?Then, how do you punish an entire nation ?
Really, once this is over China needs to be honest an open about what its going to do, I suspect that this really wasnt some master plan by them, us or anyone else as the conspiracy theorists say.
China in some ways is modern and progressive, but a lot of it is pretty medieval, with Smart Phones, needs to be some full and frank discussion about hygiene, human rights and animal cruelty, plus a suggestion to perhaps leave some items off the menu, or at least cook them.
But, lets not get cocky and assume the moral high ground, we created BSE not that long ago.
Strange, this is the second thread of this type on here. The last one died a death. IMO some people want China to suffer, economically, as a result of this but that's in terms of 'their loss, our gain'.
I feel it is a lesson to us all that we should be more self-sufficient and spread what we do outsource across a wider field. But are we, as consumers, prepared to pay a higher price for goods or are we, as producers, prepared to risk being undercut on price by our competitors? Or do we carry on as usual, buying cheap eggs from one basket, and end up paying a higher price, every now and then, when our businesses come to a grinding halt like many are doing now?
But, speaking in terms of the health and wellbeing of people, the Chinese would be mad not to tighten up on their culinary offerings, for the sake of their own economy and society, not just out of altruism for anyone else.
I feel it is a lesson to us all that we should be more self-sufficient and spread what we do outsource across a wider field. But are we, as consumers, prepared to pay a higher price for goods or are we, as producers, prepared to risk being undercut on price by our competitors? Or do we carry on as usual, buying cheap eggs from one basket, and end up paying a higher price, every now and then, when our businesses come to a grinding halt like many are doing now?
But, speaking in terms of the health and wellbeing of people, the Chinese would be mad not to tighten up on their culinary offerings, for the sake of their own economy and society, not just out of altruism for anyone else.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed, and perhaps banning all wet markets would be a starting point, Not sure if they could avoid eating what might be described as `non standard' animals as food stuffs, but it does seem that these diseases have sprung from the consumption of animals that permit / enable crossover diseases to gain a foothold in the human community, It `seems' as if they will eat everything and anything which has, or did have a pulse.
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