Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
El stovey said:
Derek Smith said:
It is interesting times for politics. As a person with no particular iron in the fire, it is entertaining, and fascinating.
Same, I vote for whoever I think will do the best (or least worst) job each GE. I wouldn’t vote for labour today but might in 2024 depending on their policies and who’s going to be involved in delivering them.
The landscape is likely to be very different again in 2024, or even next year but it will be interesting to see how covid continues to influence it all.
The main issues and events that decide the 2024 election might not even have happened yet.
It seems though that although polarisation is ridiculous at the moment a (more reformed) labour led by Starmer will likely be much more appealing to middle ground voters than Corbyn and McDonnell
ever were.
El stovey said:
...
The landscape is likely to be very different again in 2024, or even next year but it will be interesting to see how covid continues to influence it all.
...
I have a horrible feeling we'll be in almost exactly the same place, with almost exactly the same problems this time next year. The landscape is likely to be very different again in 2024, or even next year but it will be interesting to see how covid continues to influence it all.
...
The North doesn't trust or believe Starmer. His speech on Brexit at the Labour party conference cost Labour the election. He basically shafted every Labour voting Brexit supporter and they will not forget that. They view him a a shifty Lawyer, not someone they want to trust.
Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
Tony427 said:
The North doesn't trust or believe Starmer. His speech on Brexit at the Labour party conference cost Labour the election. He basically shafted every Labour voting Brexit supporter and they will not forget that. They view him a a shifty Lawyer, not someone they want to trust.
Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
Possibly but not necessarily.Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
Who knows where we'll be in 4 years, but the Conservatives are going to be carrying the can for both Covid-19 and Brexit.
If both go badly, and there is continued Tory infighting, they may well be handing Labour the next election on a silver platter like Major did to Blair.
All supposition of course. Who knows.
Tony427 said:
The North doesn't trust or believe Starmer. His speech on Brexit at the Labour party conference cost Labour the election. He basically shafted every Labour voting Brexit supporter and they will not forget that. They view him a a shifty Lawyer, not someone they want to trust.
Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
I doubt the north is a homogenous whole, and all think the same, and I doubt they will bear a grudge about a speech made half a dozen years before that they can’t remember in any case. Brexit will be dead and buried, unless, of course, the promises are not delivered. £350m per whatever can/will be explained away by any number of lies, but immigration will continue, and Farage and clones will mention this a number of times. Further, there are likely to be job losses. I feel certain that the tories will say it was down to Covid, but I have every faith in labour refuting this and suggesting that it has more to do with the fact that the tories abandoned them right after they voted for brexit. Then the photo op of him and Rayner taking the knee for the BLM rioters just sealed the fate for Labour in the next election .How many times will that be trotted out in years to come at opportune times. A catastrophic misjudgement with the image aimed soley at the woke metropolitan elite. Did no one think how that would play out in the ex red wall constituencies? He is just so out of touch with the Labour heartlands its unreal.
If the Conservatives put through the overdue boundary changes, which I hope they do as its the correct thing to do for the democratic process, it could well two further elections before Labour have a chance of getting a majority.
If, as I think they might well, if they’ve any sense, Johnson will be dumped, and the tories might suggest that it wasn’t them. It’s a doomed ploy though if unemployment it up up north.
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
turbobloke said:
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Political move by the tories. It's patently obvious that it's a matter for parliament itself. Punishments are available. If they are not awarded, then so be it."Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
If '100' tory mps have put name to paper on this matter, it tends to show they are a bit worried. They are salting the battlefield, although some way from the time
They know full well that the labour party picks its deputy leader democratically.
Derek Smith said:
Political move by the tories. It's patently obvious that it's a matter for parliament itself. Punishments are available. If they are not awarded, then so be it.
If '100' tory mps have put name to paper on this matter, it tends to show they are a bit worried. They are salting the battlefield, although some way from the time
They know full well that the labour party picks its deputy leader democratically.
They are not worried. They are giving Starmer a taste of his own medicine. Live by the sword . . . .. It is a measure of the man that he has avoided taking any voluntary action on Rayner’s despicable behaviour.If '100' tory mps have put name to paper on this matter, it tends to show they are a bit worried. They are salting the battlefield, although some way from the time
They know full well that the labour party picks its deputy leader democratically.
jakesmith said:
If a Tory had said that there would be a far greater outcry. Double standards and no place for this on politics. Keir should ban her from talking for 15 years.
From the same people who were outraged over Boris saying "humbug"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/se...
turbobloke said:
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Deflection in the hope that it moves the current headlines away from the ‘feed the starving kids’ line."Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Although Ben Bradley seems to have taken on the cause to keep it front and centre all by himself
turbobloke said:
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Gay people are tank-topped bum boys""Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Black people are piccaninnies with watermelon smiles"
Johnson - "Muslims look like letterboxes and bankrobbers"
Didn't hear much from you on those.
Rayner was wrong to say what she said and I'd support any sanction Starmer takes but I think she apologised and didn't wriggle around claiming to have been taken "out of context".
Don't be a bloody hypocrite.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:turbobloke said:
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Gay people are tank-topped bum boys""Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Black people are piccaninnies with watermelon smiles"
Johnson - "Muslims look like letterboxes and bankrobbers"
Didn't hear much from you on those.
Rayner was wrong to say what she said and I'd support any sanction Starmer takes but I think she apologised and didn't wriggle around claiming to have been taken "out of context".
Don't be a bloody hypocrite.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:turbobloke said:
Over 100 Tory MPs demand Labour leader Keir Starmer takes action over Angela Rayner’s ‘scum’ remark
"Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Gay people are tank-topped bum boys""Tory MPs have written to Labour Leader Sir Keir Starmer demanding he take action over Angela Rayner’s incendiary comments in the House of Commons. They said dozens of MPs have been threatened, had graffiti daubed in their constituencies or were abused online after Deputy Leader Angela Rayner called Chris Clarkson “scum” during a debate this week."
Did the massed ranks of our fine media miss Starmer's fine and strong leadership response to this unparliamentary / scurrilous behaviour? Lockdown not involved, so nfa?
Johnson - "Black people are piccaninnies with watermelon smiles"
Johnson - "Muslims look like letterboxes and bankrobbers"
Didn't hear much from you on those.
Rayner was wrong to say what she said and I'd support any sanction Starmer takes but I think she apologised and didn't wriggle around claiming to have been taken "out of context".
Don't be a bloody hypocrite.
I’m not defending or supporting him, just the ongoing quest for honesty.
jakesmith said:
But he didn’t say those things did he BS you’re somewhat misrepresenting / distorting his comments.
I’m not defending or supporting him, just the ongoing quest for honesty.
To aid with the ongoing quest for honesty.I’m not defending or supporting him, just the ongoing quest for honesty.
People will tie themselves in knots to defend them (appreciate that doesn't include yourself) yet get strangely indignant at the use of the word "scum" which was wrong of Rayner.
"In the Ministry of Sound, the tank-topped bum boys blub into their Pils."
"I would go further and say that it is absolutely ridiculous that people should choose to go around looking like letter boxes."
Schools and universities should be able to tell women to remove face coverings when one "turns up... looking like a bank robber".
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:jakesmith said:
Ok so we agree you completely misrepresented his comments then - thanks.
If that's how you want to see it that's fine with me Jake.Also let's avoid whataboutery where possible please. You & biggbn are rightfully very prompt at pointing it out when others do so no double standards from you two normally unhypocritical posters please. Johnson's turgid conduct does not excuse anyone else's.
Let's look at Starmer's behavior on Starmer's thread and you are free to criticise Johnson on his own cesspit of a thread.
jakesmith said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:jakesmith said:
Ok so we agree you completely misrepresented his comments then - thanks.
If that's how you want to see it that's fine with me Jake.Also let's avoid whataboutery where possible please. You & biggbn are rightfully very prompt at pointing it out when others do so no double standards from you two normally unhypocritical posters please. Johnson's turgid conduct does not excuse anyone else's.
Let's look at Starmer's behavior on Starmer's thread and you are free to criticise Johnson on his own cesspit of a thread.
jakesmith said:
If a Tory had said that there would be a far greater outcry. Double standards and no place for this on politics. Keir should ban her from talking for 15 years.
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