Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
Vasco said:
sugerbear said:
Mark Benson said:
Legacywr said:
Please take it over here… https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
No, it's relevant.What both Johnson and Starmer should be under pressure to do is to explain why they were so keen for the rest of us to follow draconian rules about meeting one another, yet neither of them saw the need to follow those rules themselves.
They either didn't see the need to do so themselves because they didn't believe the threat was acute enough to warrant the restrictions, or they thought themselves above the rules they believe the rest of us should follow.
And perhaps the most damning part is that they were too naive to think about the feelings that this behaviour would stir in people who'd rigidly followed the official guidelines in the belief that they were doing some good.
Whatever you believe about the efficacy or otherwise of the measures, it's entirely pertinant to whether Starmer is fit to lead the opposition and to possibly end up as PM - no amount of lawyer's chicanery changes any of the above; most people aren't fooled by the actions he's taken so far.
What he should have done, if he'd wanted to really strike a blow to Johnson would have been to issue a mea culpa and step down immediately, but somehow I suspect his ego prevents him doing anything so clever.
Is it really that hard?
king window. I’ve thought for a while that Labour need to just pack their bags and go, let someone else without the baggage fill the void. With the obvious exception proving the rule, they haven’t been able to offer a viable candidate in as long as most can remember, longer than my lifetime.
They just exist as a placeholder for public sentiment towards the Conservative party between general elections. They make Bath rugby club look successful.
They just exist as a placeholder for public sentiment towards the Conservative party between general elections. They make Bath rugby club look successful.
Oakey said:
Vasco said:
sugerbear said:
Mark Benson said:
Legacywr said:
Please take it over here… https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
No, it's relevant.What both Johnson and Starmer should be under pressure to do is to explain why they were so keen for the rest of us to follow draconian rules about meeting one another, yet neither of them saw the need to follow those rules themselves.
They either didn't see the need to do so themselves because they didn't believe the threat was acute enough to warrant the restrictions, or they thought themselves above the rules they believe the rest of us should follow.
And perhaps the most damning part is that they were too naive to think about the feelings that this behaviour would stir in people who'd rigidly followed the official guidelines in the belief that they were doing some good.
Whatever you believe about the efficacy or otherwise of the measures, it's entirely pertinant to whether Starmer is fit to lead the opposition and to possibly end up as PM - no amount of lawyer's chicanery changes any of the above; most people aren't fooled by the actions he's taken so far.
What he should have done, if he'd wanted to really strike a blow to Johnson would have been to issue a mea culpa and step down immediately, but somehow I suspect his ego prevents him doing anything so clever.
Is it really that hard?
king window. I like Nandy. I get the impression she has values and stands by them. But she's like an intern. Needs way more experience.
I don't agree with her politics generally, but I think someone like Harriet Harman might be a much better shout. She briefly led the party, has been round the block and I think a female leader would be interesting to put up against Johnson.
Cooper might also be a similar shout, though she comes across a bit whiny.
Problem is, I doubt either would get selected.
I don't agree with her politics generally, but I think someone like Harriet Harman might be a much better shout. She briefly led the party, has been round the block and I think a female leader would be interesting to put up against Johnson.
Cooper might also be a similar shout, though she comes across a bit whiny.
Problem is, I doubt either would get selected.
Murph7355 said:
I like Nandy. I get the impression she has values and stands by them. But she's like an intern. Needs way more experience.
I don't agree with her politics generally, but I think someone like Harriet Harman might be a much better shout. She briefly led the party, has been round the block and I think a female leader would be interesting to put up against Johnson.
Cooper might also be a similar shout, though she comes across a bit whiny.
Problem is, I doubt either would get selected.
I must admit that I'd overlooked Harriet - generally a voice of reason and common sense (seems wasted in the Labour party.....). Not sure she would be interested now she's in her 70s, but you never know.I don't agree with her politics generally, but I think someone like Harriet Harman might be a much better shout. She briefly led the party, has been round the block and I think a female leader would be interesting to put up against Johnson.
Cooper might also be a similar shout, though she comes across a bit whiny.
Problem is, I doubt either would get selected.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Competency in getting your message across matters too though.
Blair sweeping into office is a little before my time in terms of paying too much attention but I expect he was all over the media building up Labours profile and getting their message across?
I just don't see that with Starmer and I don't know what the message is.
I thought you were nearer our age ?Blair sweeping into office is a little before my time in terms of paying too much attention but I expect he was all over the media building up Labours profile and getting their message across?
I just don't see that with Starmer and I don't know what the message is.
Anyway that was pretty much how it went. The Tories were in disarray and Labour looked new and exciting. The charm offensive was well thought out. He appeared as you put it all over and to some political commentators it was surprising
Education, education, education was one of the messages
I think one of many problems with Starmer is you can only stand up for so long and berate the Conservatives until someone says 'Well, what would you do differently then?' and it's at that point it falls over as he doesn't present a votable alternative and looks like a bit of a chump.
It may be that they're putting together the 'mother of all manifestos' and will shock everyone but somehow I doubt it.
It may be that they're putting together the 'mother of all manifestos' and will shock everyone but somehow I doubt it.
anonymoususer said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Competency in getting your message across matters too though.
Blair sweeping into office is a little before my time in terms of paying too much attention but I expect he was all over the media building up Labours profile and getting their message across?
I just don't see that with Starmer and I don't know what the message is.
I thought you were nearer our age ?Blair sweeping into office is a little before my time in terms of paying too much attention but I expect he was all over the media building up Labours profile and getting their message across?
I just don't see that with Starmer and I don't know what the message is.
Anyway that was pretty much how it went. The Tories were in disarray and Labour looked new and exciting. The charm offensive was well thought out. He appeared as you put it all over and to some political commentators it was surprising
Education, education, education was one of the messages
Hey don’t waste your evening arguing about Starmer. . . Eurovision is on.
Usually one of the best threads of the year!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Usually one of the best threads of the year!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
El stovey said:
Hey don’t waste your evening arguing about Starmer. . . Eurovision is on.
Usually one of the best threads of the year!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The Europoliticalversion Song Contest?Usually one of the best threads of the year!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
News report reckoned ours is the best but Ukraine won it already, we'll see.
If only Starmer could sing.
Vasco said:
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.
Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.
A poor overall show of leaders.
There's no doubt that Thatcher and Blair were leaders but dont forget Major.Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.
A poor overall show of leaders.
He was in a very tricky position with a divided party with little majority but put in place the measures to open up the way for Northern Ireland.
Vasco said:
A bit of a poor show when you look back at the various leaders over, say, the past 50 years.
Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.
A poor overall show of leaders.
Cameron would be, I think, remembered with some degree of respect were it not for Brexit. Of those who really impressed, and got things done, we seem to have just Blair (initially) and Thatcher.
A poor overall show of leaders.
BrabusMog said:
biggbn said:
Sad to see Milliband being used as a cheerleading talking head on Sophie just now. Labour are doing jist what the Tores did and wheeling out people to defend the gaffer regardless.
He’s such an odious specimen. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff