Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
98elise said:
bhstewie said:
anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.I think that could be viewed as aspirational
But something something tribal politics.
That fails on basic logic, and even a tenuous grasp on the vaccination situation. It's the sort of solution a 5 year old would give.
She is monumentally thick.
The labour party has made repeated mistakes in the selection of their leadership teams, which leads directly to that leadership team failing to win elections.
I listened to Starmer's reply to Johnson's HoC statement earlier this week and it just wasn't very compelling. His broader problem is that he hasn't (yet?) found a significant point of difference that he can press the Government on, either related to COVID or other policy areas. That's not to say he isn't trying to distinguish Labour from the Conservatives just that there's nothing significantly different to really breakthrough into people's consciousness. We don't really know what he wants to do and so it's easy to fall back onto the "usual" party stereotypes (which are never flattering, regardless of party). His speech last week was a huge failure in that regard.
In my view this is exacerbated by a speaking style which I suspect he intends to be earnest but in fact comes across as a bit whiny ("are we nearly there yet?"). He's also not helped by his shadow cabinet who are largely anonymous, unless you're some sort of political obsessive.
In my view this is exacerbated by a speaking style which I suspect he intends to be earnest but in fact comes across as a bit whiny ("are we nearly there yet?"). He's also not helped by his shadow cabinet who are largely anonymous, unless you're some sort of political obsessive.
jakesmith said:
anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
It could be used that way, it could also be viewed that she is completely out of her depth. I think that could be viewed as aspirational
For me ‘bettering myself’ is working hard to revisit education or gaining additional qualifications, proving that I have ability and drive. not manouvering from union rep and carer to deputy prime minister and being promoted hopelessly beyond my own ability.
She’s certainly bettered her circumstances, is she able to repeat that trick for the country with know knowledge of business, economics, geo politics, is the question
On a serious note, many of our political class have no experience, or minimal, in the area they 'specialise' in, it has always been this way. I think picking on someone who has, on the face of it, risen to a very prominent position from very humble beginnings is rather harsh, and I'd say the same whether that person was a Tory, LibDem, whatever.
Policitians don't have a lot of real world experience in a lot of cases, I get that.
Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point
Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point
Starmer has just fallen deeper and deeper into a beige pit of mediocrity the more time has passed. Labour's Covid position is to align with the government's direction and argue over details. I couldn't honestly tell you one thing about Labour's position on any other topic.
It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.
It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.
You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.
Wrong coloured rosette though.
andy43 said:
Policitians don't have a lot of real world experience in a lot of cases, I get that.
Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point
Maybe she can but never really had the time or desire to go back to school. Lots of very successful business leaders dropped out and never revisited.Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point
Maybe that O-Level would not be very relevant nor add any value to her current position anyway
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.
You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.
Wrong coloured rosette though.
Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
SpeckledJim said:
I can't reconcile lamenting the standard of our elected representatives (which is something I think interested folk of all persuasions are inclined to do) whilst congratulating someone who seems to me to be 60% bully and 35% nutcase on how well they have done to get where they have.
Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
If I wanted to discuss bullies in powerful positions I'm not sure Angela Rayner is the first name that leaps to mind.Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
Do I think she's bullied her way to where she is now?
I haven't seen anything to make me think that's the case.
I believe she's also in a post where she's directly elected by the party membership so arguably a lot more directly accountable for than a lot of other politicians.
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.
You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.
Wrong coloured rosette though.
She is thicker than custard and would be really dangerous if she were ever given any power.
Her policy views and interviews are repeated car crashes.
SpeckledJim said:
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.
You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.
Wrong coloured rosette though.
Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
loafer123 said:
Your defence of her is a reflection of your red tinted lenses.
She is thicker than custard and would be really dangerous if she were ever given any power.
Her policy views and interviews are repeated car crashes.
I don't have red tinted lenses and I've voted Conservative at every general election except the last one where I voted for an independent.She is thicker than custard and would be really dangerous if she were ever given any power.
Her policy views and interviews are repeated car crashes.
I didn't say I want her anywhere near power as I don't but you can't (or shouldn't if you're objective) deny she's made a success of herself given her background.
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
SpeckledJim said:
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.
You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.
Wrong coloured rosette though.
Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
It appears that Angela Rayner may be in a bit of bother.
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
I may have posted this in a genuine error its something that came up below an online article I was reading and said 2 hours ago.
It may well be that it refers to her previous incident in which case I apologise for the error
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
I may have posted this in a genuine error its something that came up below an online article I was reading and said 2 hours ago.
It may well be that it refers to her previous incident in which case I apologise for the error
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 24th February 17:47
whoami said:
anonymoususer said:
It appears that Angela Rayner may be in a bit of bother.
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
Again?She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
It came up underneath an article I was reading and said 2 hours ago.
I can't locate it now so it may well indeed refer to the one last year - apologies if I have made a genuine mistake
Its obvious I get flustered when looking at I mean discussing this lady
Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 24th February 17:49
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Starmer has just fallen deeper and deeper into a beige pit of mediocrity the more time has passed. Labour's Covid position is to align with the government's direction and argue over details. I couldn't honestly tell you one thing about Labour's position on any other topic.
It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.
In fairness, people knew that about Boris when they voted him in. He was the least worst option. Still is, sadly.It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.
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