Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

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PushedDover

5,622 posts

52 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
very meagre mental rations.
hehe

jakesmith

9,461 posts

170 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
98elise said:
bhstewie said:
anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.

But something something tribal politics.
Her recent answer to how all teachers could be vaccinated without them being out ahead of vulnerable people, was to double the vaccination rate!

That fails on basic logic, and even a tenuous grasp on the vaccination situation. It's the sort of solution a 5 year old would give.

She is monumentally thick.
The failure isn't Rayner's. She has achieved enormous successes from very meagre mental rations. The failure belongs to the people who keep promoting her. That failure is linked to the huge recent electoral failures. And will be linked to the next one.

The labour party has made repeated mistakes in the selection of their leadership teams, which leads directly to that leadership team failing to win elections.
It’s a shocking indictment of what happens when the public get involved too much in big decisions when they clearly don’t have the capability or information to weigh it up ... sounds familiar?

basherX

2,464 posts

160 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
I listened to Starmer's reply to Johnson's HoC statement earlier this week and it just wasn't very compelling. His broader problem is that he hasn't (yet?) found a significant point of difference that he can press the Government on, either related to COVID or other policy areas. That's not to say he isn't trying to distinguish Labour from the Conservatives just that there's nothing significantly different to really breakthrough into people's consciousness. We don't really know what he wants to do and so it's easy to fall back onto the "usual" party stereotypes (which are never flattering, regardless of party). His speech last week was a huge failure in that regard.

In my view this is exacerbated by a speaking style which I suspect he intends to be earnest but in fact comes across as a bit whiny ("are we nearly there yet?"). He's also not helped by his shadow cabinet who are largely anonymous, unless you're some sort of political obsessive.

biggbn

22,818 posts

219 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
jakesmith said:
anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
It could be used that way, it could also be viewed that she is completely out of her depth.

For me ‘bettering myself’ is working hard to revisit education or gaining additional qualifications, proving that I have ability and drive. not manouvering from union rep and carer to deputy prime minister and being promoted hopelessly beyond my own ability.

She’s certainly bettered her circumstances, is she able to repeat that trick for the country with know knowledge of business, economics, geo politics, is the question
Good to see you back Jake, and just for sts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. smile

On a serious note, many of our political class have no experience, or minimal, in the area they 'specialise' in, it has always been this way. I think picking on someone who has, on the face of it, risen to a very prominent position from very humble beginnings is rather harsh, and I'd say the same whether that person was a Tory, LibDem, whatever.

whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Good to see you back Jake, and just for sts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. smile
Me too. smile

andy43

9,548 posts

253 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
Policitians don't have a lot of real world experience in a lot of cases, I get that.
Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point nono

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
Starmer has just fallen deeper and deeper into a beige pit of mediocrity the more time has passed. Labour's Covid position is to align with the government's direction and argue over details. I couldn't honestly tell you one thing about Labour's position on any other topic.

It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.

menousername

2,106 posts

141 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
andy43 said:
Policitians don't have a lot of real world experience in a lot of cases, I get that.
Holding a basic maths qualification and being able to prove you can understand reports and figures would be pretty much essential I would have thought. Just an O level or two would do it, nothing fancy.
Anybody mentioning Diane at this point nono
Maybe she can but never really had the time or desire to go back to school. Lots of very successful business leaders dropped out and never revisited.

Maybe that O-Level would not be very relevant nor add any value to her current position anyway


London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
whoami said:
biggbn said:
Good to see you back Jake, and just for sts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. smile
Me too. smile
hehe

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.
I can't reconcile lamenting the standard of our elected representatives (which is something I think interested folk of all persuasions are inclined to do) whilst congratulating someone who seems to me to be 60% bully and 35% nutcase on how well they have done to get where they have.

Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced




bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
I can't reconcile lamenting the standard of our elected representatives (which is something I think interested folk of all persuasions are inclined to do) whilst congratulating someone who seems to me to be 60% bully and 35% nutcase on how well they have done to get where they have.

Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
If I wanted to discuss bullies in powerful positions I'm not sure Angela Rayner is the first name that leaps to mind.

Do I think she's bullied her way to where she is now?

I haven't seen anything to make me think that's the case.

I believe she's also in a post where she's directly elected by the party membership so arguably a lot more directly accountable for than a lot of other politicians.

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.
Your defence of her is a reflection of your red tinted lenses.

She is thicker than custard and would be really dangerous if she were ever given any power.

Her policy views and interviews are repeated car crashes.

Francois de La Rochefoucauld

460 posts

77 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
SpeckledJim said:
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.
I can't reconcile lamenting the standard of our elected representatives (which is something I think interested folk of all persuasions are inclined to do) whilst congratulating someone who seems to me to be 60% bully and 35% nutcase on how well they have done to get where they have.

Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
She's a stunning example of 'it's not what you know, it's who you know', which I'm all for, but you'd rather think the Labour party wouldn't.

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
Your defence of her is a reflection of your red tinted lenses.

She is thicker than custard and would be really dangerous if she were ever given any power.

Her policy views and interviews are repeated car crashes.
I don't have red tinted lenses and I've voted Conservative at every general election except the last one where I voted for an independent.

I didn't say I want her anywhere near power as I don't but you can't (or shouldn't if you're objective) deny she's made a success of herself given her background.

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

252 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
Francois de La Rochefoucauld said:
SpeckledJim said:
bhstewie said:
El stovey said:
On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.
I can't reconcile lamenting the standard of our elected representatives (which is something I think interested folk of all persuasions are inclined to do) whilst congratulating someone who seems to me to be 60% bully and 35% nutcase on how well they have done to get where they have.

Saying "well done Angela!" whilst thinking "how the fk has that been allowed to happen!?" seems a bit two-faced
She's a stunning example of 'it's not what you know, it's who you know', which I'm all for, but you'd rather think the Labour party wouldn't.
Seb Corbyn. Coming to a safe seat near you soon!

anonymoususer

5,717 posts

47 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
It appears that Angela Rayner may be in a bit of bother.
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.

I may have posted this in a genuine error its something that came up below an online article I was reading and said 2 hours ago.
It may well be that it refers to her previous incident in which case I apologise for the error

Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 24th February 17:47

whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
anonymoususer said:
It appears that Angela Rayner may be in a bit of bother.
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
Again?

anonymoususer

5,717 posts

47 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
whoami said:
anonymoususer said:
It appears that Angela Rayner may be in a bit of bother.
She appears to have called Chris Clarkson "scum" during a house of commons debate earlier today.
Again?
I believe i may have posted this in error.
It came up underneath an article I was reading and said 2 hours ago.
I can't locate it now so it may well indeed refer to the one last year - apologies if I have made a genuine mistake
Its obvious I get flustered when looking at I mean discussing this lady

Edited by anonymoususer on Wednesday 24th February 17:49

survivalist

5,614 posts

189 months

Wednesday 24th February 2021
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Starmer has just fallen deeper and deeper into a beige pit of mediocrity the more time has passed. Labour's Covid position is to align with the government's direction and argue over details. I couldn't honestly tell you one thing about Labour's position on any other topic.

It's almost as if he believes pointing out Boris McFibber is winging it 24/7 is enough to win out. It isn't.
In fairness, people knew that about Boris when they voted him in. He was the least worst option. Still is, sadly.
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