Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?

[jakesmith]

bhstewie said:

I didn't say I want her anywhere near power as I don't but you can't (or shouldn't if you're objective) deny she's made a success of herself given her background.

So did Michael Carol the 'lotto lout', what is your point? There are all sorts of completely unsuitable people who, by maneuvering, luck, nepotism, or criminality, have got to positions they are incapable of executing.

[bitchstewie]

jakesmith said:

So did Michael Carol the 'lotto lout', what is your point? There are all sorts of completely unsuitable people who, by maneuvering, luck, nepotism, or criminality, have got to positions they are incapable of executing.

Yes we have a Prime Minister and a cabinet full of them.

Michael Caroll bought a lottery ticket whilst Rayner has worked hard to better herself whatever you might think of her politics.

My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.

Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.

Same old tribal st and a very strange sort of snobbery.

[768]

Zero GCSEs. Not one.

[amgmcqueen]

bhstewie said:

jakesmith said:

So did Michael Carol the 'lotto lout', what is your point? There are all sorts of completely unsuitable people who, by maneuvering, luck, nepotism, or criminality, have got to positions they are incapable of executing.

Yes we have a Prime Minister and a cabinet full of them.

Michael Caroll bought a lottery ticket whilst Rayner has worked hard to better herself whatever you might think of her politics.

My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.

Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.

Same old tribal st and a very strange sort of snobbery.

Utter nonsense, every word.

[98elise]

bhstewie said:

El stovey said:

On the brexit threads we're constantly hearing how qualifications and education certificates aren’t important. Gove doesn’t like hearing from experts. Not sure why Rayner having no O levels (or whatever) is an issue.

It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.

Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.

Whilst I don't agree with most of her politics she does seem a good example of what can be achieved.

If you look at her background it could easily have worked out very differently.

You'd have thought the fact that it didn't is something to be congratulated.

Wrong coloured rosette though.

What has she achieved? For the majority of MP's the electorate just vote for rosette colour. Once you're the candidate you are a shoe in for the job.

She was part of the shadow cabinet that delivered the worst defeat for Labour in living memory!

[bitchstewie]

98elise said:

What has she achieved? For the majority of MP's the electorate just vote for rosette colour. Once you're the candidate you are a shoe in for the job.

She was part of the shadow cabinet that delivered the worst defeat for Labour in living memory!

As I said before I believe Deputy Leader is a post that's directly elected by the membership.

The shadow cabinet point is a fair one but equally we have ministers in the cabinet who were fired for lying or incompetence and the Prime Minister was fired from two jobs (I think it was just two?) for lying.

Like I said I don't agree with most of what she says but I find it odd that we criticise people who have actually managed to make something of their life when you consider the way it was going at one point.

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

[andymadmak]

bhstewie said:

My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.

No

bhstewie said:

Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.

No

bhstewie said:

Same old tribal st and a very strange sort of snobbery.

No. She just isn't very bright. She makes Priti Patel look like a MENSA candidate.

But I suppose your posts are at least consistent.

1) Praise a Conservative = Tribal Tory nonsense. (no matter how justified that praise may be)
2) Criticise a Conservative = A balanced view (but only if the criticism is sufficiently robust, otherwise see option 1)
3) Praise a Labour member = A balanced view (but only if the praise is sufficiently gushing, otherwise see option 1)
4) Criticise a Labour member = Tribal Tory nonsense, (no matter how justified the criticism may be.)

[bitchstewie]

andymadmak said:

No. She just isn't very bright. She makes Priti Patel look like a MENSA candidate.

But I suppose your posts are at least consistent.

1) Praise a Conservative = Tribal Tory nonsense.
2) Criticise a Conservative = A balanced view (but only if the criticism is sufficiently robust, otherwise see option 1)
3) Praise a Labour member = A balanced view (but only if the parish is sufficiently gushing, otherwise see option 1)
4) Criticise a Labour member = Tribal Tory nonsense, no matter how justified the criticism may be.

Kind of works until I criticise Starmer or Rayner or praise Johnson or Patel doesn't it Andy then it kind of falls on its face.

You were saying something about Mensa?

[jakesmith]

bhstewie said:

Yes we have a Prime Minister and a cabinet full of them.

Michael Caroll bought a lottery ticket whilst Rayner has worked hard to better herself whatever you might think of her politics.

My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.

Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.

Same old tribal st and a very strange sort of snobbery.

Where are the people heaping adoration on the Torys right now that you refer to from time to time? There are plenty of threads on how inept they are as a group and individuals, filled with criticism, and you seem to pop up on many of them, accusing anyone who challenges any aspect of the anti-Tory group think echo chamber of being ... tribal. How odd.

It’s perfectly legitimate to criticise something without being biased against it.

[bitchstewie]

jakesmith said:

Where are the people heaping adoration on the Torys right now that you refer to from time to time? There are plenty of threads on how inept they are as a group and individuals, filled with criticism, and you seem to pop up on many of them, accusing anyone who challenges any aspect of the anti-Tory group think echo chamber of being ... tribal. How odd.

It’s perfectly legitimate to criticise something without being biased against it.

They do seem to have gone strangely quiet except the odd whimper when someone criticises the dear leader.

It's actually quite telling that rather than post anything positive about the bloke who is in charge they seem more interested in the bloke who isn't.

And equally it's quite legitimate to give someone credit for what they've achieved without supporting most of what they stand for.

[768]

When I were a lad and it were all fields round ere, this used to be the Keir Starmer reviving the Labour party thread.

Grr, Boris.

[valiant]

768 said:

Zero GCSEs. Not one.

John Major only had three O levels and he became PM and I think that he’s widely respected by many and not just Tories as being a decent PM. A tertiary education is no proof that you’ll make a decent MP, minister or even PM.

Rayner is definitely marmite but she has achieved quite a lot despite her lack of formal education and she certainly isn’t thick. Obviously there are plenty on here that don’t agree with her politics and that’s perfectly normal but to dismiss her because she hasn’t got any grades is just another excuse to justify your particular political stance.

As has been said, she’s been elected to DL and Starmer has no choice in the matter. She is definitely a Corbynite which does make her quite dangerous for Starmer but, scumgate aside, she’s outwardly toed the line but I think internally she’s proving quite the obstacle in Starmer’s attempts to modernise the party. She does need to be sidelined in a similar way that Watson was effectively sidelined by Corbyn but with a 80 seat deficit to contend with, Who needs who the most?

[jakesmith]

bhstewie said:

They do seem to have gone strangely quiet except the odd whimper when someone criticises the dear leader.

It's actually quite telling that rather than post anything positive about the bloke who is in charge they seem more interested in the bloke who isn't.

And equally it's quite legitimate to give someone credit for what they've achieved without supporting most of what they stand for.

It’s almost as if they aren’t a raving bunch of blue loonies eh.
BTW you do know this is a Keir Starmer thread don’t you?
Please advise what content and type of discussion is acceptable - if only praise is appropriate just say and everyone will switch up their style to one that pleases you more - that’s what we’re here for!

[anonymoususer]

768 said:

When I were a lad and it were all fields round ere, this used to be the Keir Starmer reviving the Labour party thread.

Grr, Boris.

Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner

Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM

[valiant]

anonymoususer said:

768 said:

When I were a lad and it were all fields round ere, this used to be the Keir Starmer reviving the Labour party thread.

Grr, Boris.

Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner

Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM

I agree with that.

[Welshbeef]

valiant said:

John Major only had three O levels and he became PM and I think that he’s widely respected by many and not just Tories as being a decent PM. A tertiary education is no proof that you’ll make a decent MP, minister or even PM.

Rayner is definitely marmite but she has achieved quite a lot despite her lack of formal education and she certainly isn’t thick. Obviously there are plenty on here that don’t agree with her politics and that’s perfectly normal but to dismiss her because she hasn’t got any grades is just another excuse to justify your particular political stance.

As has been said, she’s been elected to DL and Starmer has no choice in the matter. She is definitely a Corbynite which does make her quite dangerous for Starmer but, scumgate aside, she’s outwardly toed the line but I think internally she’s proving quite the obstacle in Starmer’s attempts to modernise the party. She does need to be sidelined in a similar way that Watson was effectively sidelined by Corbyn but with a 80 seat deficit to contend with, Who needs who the most?

I’m a blue voter

John Major was weak and woeful as PM.
Failure on so many accounts

What makes you think he was a GOOD PM?

[jakesmith]

anonymoususer said:

Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner

Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM

Long overdue a political comeback with a popularity boost from appearing on ‘Dances like a ’

[bitchstewie]

anonymoususer said:

Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner

Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM

I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of anyone who seems vaguely Prime Minister material.

[jakesmith]

Welshbeef said:

I’m a blue voter

John Major was weak and woeful as PM.
Failure on so many accounts

What makes you think he was a GOOD PM?

Angus Destiny on HIGNFY:
‘Apparently Major kept blocking Edwina Currie’s peerage... I mean, I’ve heard some euphemisms in my time...’ LOL

[Einion Yrth]

anonymoususer said:

Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM

Looking at the current state of the Labour party, there may well be a number of stones yet to negotiate before reaching the far bank.