Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
hackjo said:
Blue62 said:
turbobloke said:
Millionaire and common man of the people Sir K Starmer may be able to heal the politically sick but not revive the dead.
He'll have to wait for political suicide elsewhere in quite a few years and may find himself replaced due to growing Momentum for a radical female protest leader to heckle from the sidelines.
I don't understand why the fact that Starmer is a millionaire is at all relevant in terms of his ability or propensity to lead the Labour Party, he comes from a pretty ordinary background and is obviously a bright cookie. With few of the advantages bestowed upon his peer group he rose to the top of the CPS and was well rewarded for doing so, I can't see any issue with that but maybe you could enlighten me?He'll have to wait for political suicide elsewhere in quite a few years and may find himself replaced due to growing Momentum for a radical female protest leader to heckle from the sidelines.
I don't see many scathing remarks about 'working class Tories' though that is an obvious phenomenon, especially at the last election. I recognise that this is PH and accept the undoubted weighting of opinion here, but some otherwise lucid posters don't half let their guards down at times.
I apply the same thinking to BoJo - I dislike his philandering personal lifestyle and I think he has a very healthy ego that needs to be fed, but I recognise his strengths, not least forming a very credible team of capable people around him and letting them each have the limelight, an impressive leadership quality not often found in an egotistical showman.
turbobloke said:
hackjo said:
Blue62 said:
turbobloke said:
Millionaire and common man of the people Sir K Starmer may be able to heal the politically sick but not revive the dead.
He'll have to wait for political suicide elsewhere in quite a few years and may find himself replaced due to growing Momentum for a radical female protest leader to heckle from the sidelines.
I don't understand why the fact that Starmer is a millionaire is at all relevant in terms of his ability or propensity to lead the Labour Party, he comes from a pretty ordinary background and is obviously a bright cookie. With few of the advantages bestowed upon his peer group he rose to the top of the CPS and was well rewarded for doing so, I can't see any issue with that but maybe you could enlighten me?He'll have to wait for political suicide elsewhere in quite a few years and may find himself replaced due to growing Momentum for a radical female protest leader to heckle from the sidelines.
I don't see many scathing remarks about 'working class Tories' though that is an obvious phenomenon, especially at the last election. I recognise that this is PH and accept the undoubted weighting of opinion here, but some otherwise lucid posters don't half let their guards down at times.
I apply the same thinking to BoJo - I dislike his philandering personal lifestyle and I think he has a very healthy ego that needs to be fed, but I recognise his strengths, not least forming a very credible team of capable people around him and letting them each have the limelight, an impressive leadership quality not often found in an egotistical showman.
turbobloke said:
The irony of Corbyn being succeeded by another establishment champagne socialist Labour leader is lost on some. My post didn't judge him, it described him and indicated a reasonable view of his fate. Namely, he won't have much of a chance to do anything to be judged on - except spectate.
Champagne Socialist is a rather tired old cliche, but I’m not sure that Starmer conforms to it at all. Your previous post did judge him, it’s obvious that describing him as a millionaire was intended as a slight, I wonder how you would regard anybody describing Boris as such? Id hazard a guess that you would argue it’s irrelevant. In any event, time will tell if you are right in your assertion, time that I hope we all will have.
No.
Best of a very s
te bunch.
But he doesn't have the charisma or speaking skills that Blair had to make Labour electable. Something they ALWAYS forget is they need to convince floating voters. And (Iraq aside) Blair did. They'll continue to navel gaze about stuff that's not important. Get suckered into "always opposing" the Gov and no one will view them as serious.
Perhaps KS will set the groundwork and a new candidate will emerge over the next 4-5 years to take the Labour party to a more electable position
Best of a very s
te bunch.But he doesn't have the charisma or speaking skills that Blair had to make Labour electable. Something they ALWAYS forget is they need to convince floating voters. And (Iraq aside) Blair did. They'll continue to navel gaze about stuff that's not important. Get suckered into "always opposing" the Gov and no one will view them as serious.
Perhaps KS will set the groundwork and a new candidate will emerge over the next 4-5 years to take the Labour party to a more electable position
He's going to need to deal with Crayons first, she's still (this afternoon) tweeting out her own nonsense manifesto garbage, when surely now she's his deputy she ought to be falling in line behind him, not promoting her own garbage. Going to be interesting to see how he handles her given she threw all her support behing Wrong Daily and therefore Corbynism.
Am waiting patiently to see what popular tune the youth appropriate in order to show their support, "ooooh Sir Keir Star-merrr" kind of fits the White Stripes but not quite as good as "ooohh Jer-e-my Cor-byn" did.
Has Stormzy, the hero of the BBC given his blessing to the new leader yet?
Am waiting patiently to see what popular tune the youth appropriate in order to show their support, "ooooh Sir Keir Star-merrr" kind of fits the White Stripes but not quite as good as "ooohh Jer-e-my Cor-byn" did.
Has Stormzy, the hero of the BBC given his blessing to the new leader yet?
ou sont les biscuits said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Abbott will need to be pushed. She is too stupid/stubborn to lift her head from the trough to see what's happening.
His Shadow Cabinet will say a lot about how effective he is going to be as Leader of the Opposition.
She's on record as saying she would step down irrespective of who the new leader was. Has that changed recently?His Shadow Cabinet will say a lot about how effective he is going to be as Leader of the Opposition.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/diane-ab...
She's political poison and Starmer knows it. I still think JC might have squeaked it in 2017 but Abbott's presence made the undecided think.............'naaaaah'.
The macro problem Labour have to deal with is that their traditional vote has split in two.
The traditional left, composed largely of the white working class, has deserted them in droves. It's unclear what Labour can do to bring them back without alienating what they have left: students, the chattering classes and the less successful immigrant communities.
It's a square that centre left parties across the Western world are signally failing to circle.
The traditional left, composed largely of the white working class, has deserted them in droves. It's unclear what Labour can do to bring them back without alienating what they have left: students, the chattering classes and the less successful immigrant communities.
It's a square that centre left parties across the Western world are signally failing to circle.
If he want's anyone to take this party seriously he has to get shot of Abbott!s2art said:
If he has a good pandemic I suspect the elecorate will forgive an economic downturn. Saving lives is a good excuse.
The electorate never forgive an economic downturn. It's the killer for a political party. Also, there's a long gap until the next election. Memories are short. There are likely to be problems for the majority of people in the post crisis period. Most will struggle to an extent and have to, as my gran used to say, bend over backwards to make ends meet. But if there's an upturn in the approach to the election, then it might be forgiven. The problems might be the state of the EU and the USA. The latter might well go into isolationist mode if Trump wins a second term, 'cause they might well be in a bit of a state given his lack of planning. The EU will have Spain and Italy as anchors.
It is probable, at least if he continues to behave as he has, that Johnson will have a good pandemic. He's done well so far and might even be forgiven if things went badly. But whether this will cascade to lesser mortals in his party is the difficult question. He's behaved impeccably so far, even his isolation might be working for him as we've not had oversupply of the Johnson charm. Come the time and all that. Or come the man, then go the man according to my gran. She had an interesting life.
If things turn out worse than expected, Johnson can say, with a high degree of proveable truth, that he followed the advice of the experts. It's not a perfect defence of course, but if anyone can carry it off, he can.
Too early to predict of course. It might be too early to predict in four and a half years.
Problem is how do you send someone with Sir in front of their name into the north of England to convince them that HE understands them, understands what’s it like to work every hour god sends on minimum wage. understands the history of the area, understands the problems facing many people these day’s?
Meanwhile you have Boris, a clown who loves to make people laugh, smile, feel good. Act like he’s one of you, like he gets you? If that doesn’t work they’ll just blame it on the “foreigners” or the global financial crash “wot Labour done init”.
Sir Keir probably isn’t going to win any elections, nor would the other 2 BUT they’re starting from such a low point that whatever he does will be spun into a victory. My own personal opinion is that we will never see another party govern again, I just don’t see how you can lose if you just blame everything on everyone else, evade questions, dodge consequences, have the press on your side and crucially just tell people what they want to hear.
Meanwhile you have Boris, a clown who loves to make people laugh, smile, feel good. Act like he’s one of you, like he gets you? If that doesn’t work they’ll just blame it on the “foreigners” or the global financial crash “wot Labour done init”.
Sir Keir probably isn’t going to win any elections, nor would the other 2 BUT they’re starting from such a low point that whatever he does will be spun into a victory. My own personal opinion is that we will never see another party govern again, I just don’t see how you can lose if you just blame everything on everyone else, evade questions, dodge consequences, have the press on your side and crucially just tell people what they want to hear.
For the OP - the first and most important thing is GET RID OF MOMENTUM!
Allowing a lunatic fringe political movement to control the entire opposition party is what has taken Labour from a position of potential Government to a situation where their own supporters would rather vote for the "enemy" than vote for their own party.
The only problem is that Momentum, to quote a favourite film, are "dug in like an Alabama tick" so getting rid of the people, the policies and the infrastructure which allowed a fringe group to seize power will take the next 5 years at least and even then I'm not sure Sir Keir will be able to do it because if there's one thing Communists/Socialist love more than being righteous p***ks, it's clinging onto power until they're forcibly removed (at gun point in Communist/Socialist paradises usually).
Allowing a lunatic fringe political movement to control the entire opposition party is what has taken Labour from a position of potential Government to a situation where their own supporters would rather vote for the "enemy" than vote for their own party.
The only problem is that Momentum, to quote a favourite film, are "dug in like an Alabama tick" so getting rid of the people, the policies and the infrastructure which allowed a fringe group to seize power will take the next 5 years at least and even then I'm not sure Sir Keir will be able to do it because if there's one thing Communists/Socialist love more than being righteous p***ks, it's clinging onto power until they're forcibly removed (at gun point in Communist/Socialist paradises usually).
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff