Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?
Poll: Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?
Total Members Polled: 875
Discussion
pequod said:
Is this still relevant? Surely the point of a TTI system has long since sailed, unless you believe a second wave will be even more dangerous?
This smells of a Govt that has put money and their reputation into a tech system which is no longer required, but on they go to assuage who exactly? The Karens will never be satisfied that it is safe to come out from behind the sofa, yet, the majority of the population using their common sense, are out and about and, currently, booking a glamping fortnight in Devon!
Please explain to me if my understanding is wrong?
https://youtu.be/hCjzBqMrjcUThis smells of a Govt that has put money and their reputation into a tech system which is no longer required, but on they go to assuage who exactly? The Karens will never be satisfied that it is safe to come out from behind the sofa, yet, the majority of the population using their common sense, are out and about and, currently, booking a glamping fortnight in Devon!
Please explain to me if my understanding is wrong?
Rarely have I seen a senior minister flap as bad as this, if anyone who watches this doesn’t think the virus is a data grab scam then there is no hope at all. It’s a long interview, absolutely painful, skip to 4.10 for the pub stuff. Interviewer very good.
Zirconia said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Zirconia said:
Looks like they can now scrape your data when you eat out, restaurants and pubs will share with NHS. Have restaurants and pubs changed the GDPR T+C.
Not going out anytime soon then.
May I ask if you have a link to that story?Not going out anytime soon then.
(I've not been keeping up with the depressing BBC.)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52530518
Under hospitality.
Will have a read of that
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5eb...
Section 2.1
"The opening up of the economy following the COVID-19 outbreak is being supported by NHS Test and Trace. You should assist this service by keeping a temporary record of your customers and visitors for 21 days, in a way that is manageable for your business, and assist NHS Test and Trace with requests for that data if needed. This could help contain clusters or outbreaks. Many businesses that take bookings already have systems for recording their customers and visitors – including restaurants, hotels, and hair salons. If you do not already do this, you should do so to help fight the virus. We will work with industry and relevant bodies to design this system in line with data protection legislation, and set out details shortly."
Section 2.1
"The opening up of the economy following the COVID-19 outbreak is being supported by NHS Test and Trace. You should assist this service by keeping a temporary record of your customers and visitors for 21 days, in a way that is manageable for your business, and assist NHS Test and Trace with requests for that data if needed. This could help contain clusters or outbreaks. Many businesses that take bookings already have systems for recording their customers and visitors – including restaurants, hotels, and hair salons. If you do not already do this, you should do so to help fight the virus. We will work with industry and relevant bodies to design this system in line with data protection legislation, and set out details shortly."
Zirconia said:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5eb...
Section 2.1
"The opening up of the economy following the COVID-19 outbreak is being supported by NHS Test and Trace. You should assist this service by keeping a temporary record of your customers and visitors for 21 days, in a way that is manageable for your business, and assist NHS Test and Trace with requests for that data if needed. This could help contain clusters or outbreaks. Many businesses that take bookings already have systems for recording their customers and visitors – including restaurants, hotels, and hair salons. If you do not already do this, you should do so to help fight the virus. We will work with industry and relevant bodies to design this system in line with data protection legislation, and set out details shortly."
I wonder what it’ll mean in reality Section 2.1
"The opening up of the economy following the COVID-19 outbreak is being supported by NHS Test and Trace. You should assist this service by keeping a temporary record of your customers and visitors for 21 days, in a way that is manageable for your business, and assist NHS Test and Trace with requests for that data if needed. This could help contain clusters or outbreaks. Many businesses that take bookings already have systems for recording their customers and visitors – including restaurants, hotels, and hair salons. If you do not already do this, you should do so to help fight the virus. We will work with industry and relevant bodies to design this system in line with data protection legislation, and set out details shortly."
Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
Jimboka said:
I wonder what it’ll mean in reality
Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
As you say but I expect there be a lot of Mr Johnson, No10 Downing Street on the records with false phone numbers or the number of someone you hate? Proof of ID? Blond wig?Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
Mr E said:
Should, not must?
Yeah, clocked that, there have been a lot of should rather than must, it is how Cummings wormed out of it.Zirconia said:
Jimboka said:
I wonder what it’ll mean in reality
Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
As you say but I expect there be a lot of Mr Johnson, No10 Downing Street on the records with false phone numbers or the number of someone you hate? Proof of ID? Blond wig?Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
Mr E said:
Should, not must?
Yeah, clocked that, there have been a lot of should rather than must, it is how Cummings wormed out of it.Zirconia said:
Jimboka said:
I wonder what it’ll mean in reality
Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
As you say but I expect there be a lot of Mr Johnson, No10 Downing Street on the records with false phone numbers or the number of someone you hate? Proof of ID? Blond wig?Go to a pub. A few days later, someone has batflu
Pub hands over the details of who was there that night. All have to isolate for 14 days?
A good reason not to go if that’s the case
Or there will be a lot of Mr M Mouse etc on the list
Mr E said:
Should, not must?
Yeah, clocked that, there have been a lot of should rather than must, it is how Cummings wormed out of it.markcoznottz said:
https://youtu.be/hCjzBqMrjcU
Rarely have I seen a senior minister flap as bad as this, if anyone who watches this doesn’t think the virus is a data grab scam then there is no hope at all. It’s a long interview, absolutely painful, skip to 4.10 for the pub stuff. Interviewer very good.
^^ Correct. There was going to be only one winner between Sophy Cringe and Matt Haircut.Rarely have I seen a senior minister flap as bad as this, if anyone who watches this doesn’t think the virus is a data grab scam then there is no hope at all. It’s a long interview, absolutely painful, skip to 4.10 for the pub stuff. Interviewer very good.
Interesting article via https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/12764895131...
https://www.ft.com/content/9446192a-aff1-4e95-93fb...
Not paywall at first reading, clear cookies or something?
Nugget regarding distances.
NHSX detected 4% iPhones. Apple google system detected 99%. Government testing figures according to the article. Wonder if that is a correct statement.
Anon interviews with those involved for the info.
https://www.ft.com/content/9446192a-aff1-4e95-93fb...
Not paywall at first reading, clear cookies or something?
Nugget regarding distances.
NHSX detected 4% iPhones. Apple google system detected 99%. Government testing figures according to the article. Wonder if that is a correct statement.
Anon interviews with those involved for the info.
Zirconia said:
Interesting article via https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/12764895131...
https://www.ft.com/content/9446192a-aff1-4e95-93fb...
Not paywall at first reading, clear cookies or something?
Yes, interesting article. Though not really a surprising one. As other people pointed out way back when this first appeared on the scene, this was a government IT project, which don't have particularly good track records of success. Seeing a snippet of what was going on behind the scenes from this article, they were correct.https://www.ft.com/content/9446192a-aff1-4e95-93fb...
Not paywall at first reading, clear cookies or something?
Zirconia said:
Nugget regarding distances.
NHSX detected 4% iPhones. Apple google system detected 99%. Government testing figures according to the article. Wonder if that is a correct statement.
Anon interviews with those involved for the info.
Those percentages aren't related to distances. They're a symptom of the protections built into iOS, which can only be properly worked around by using the Apple/ Google API. NHSX detected 4% iPhones. Apple google system detected 99%. Government testing figures according to the article. Wonder if that is a correct statement.
Anon interviews with those involved for the info.
There's two 'points of failure' if you like around these apps. Actually there's more, but the two most relevant here are:
1 - The ability to register other handsets within bluetooth range (The actual exchange of tokens). This is hampered in apps not using the A/G API by the privacy protections built into the operating systems. This is more of an issue with iOS than Android, though the full figures were 4% of iPhones, 75% of Android phones, so the problem is not entirely absent in Android. This is probably caused by later versions of Android adopting some of the protections built into iOS. Also only fair to point out, the 4% of iPhones were 4% of iPhones where the device was locked and the app in the background, not 4% of total iPhones.
2 - The ability of Bluetooth to accurately judge distances. Bluetooth was never designed as a method of measuring distance. It's not great at it. The NHSX app appears to have been better at this than apps based on the A/G API, possibly because in the NHSX app the devices inform each other what type of device they are (Eg an iPhone 8 or a Samsung Galaxy S10 etc), so it can take into account the characteristics of the bluetooth radio stacks in those devices. The A/G API doesn't allow this, so those characteristics can't be taken into account. The surrounding environment can also affect how well bluetooth transmits (Bluetooth is just radio waves like any others), for example the metal in a train carriage can cause anomalies. The argument is just how bad the distance detection is, and whether it's better to have a system that works to a degree, but may give anomalous results, or just not to have a system.
Other interesting news is the fact that Northern Ireland is working towards releasing a A/G based app, and thinks it can release it in a matter of weeks. If they manage it, that could cause a degree of embarrassment in Downing Street....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53200521
Interesting
Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
pip t said:
Those percentages aren't related to distances. They're a symptom of the protections built into iOS, which can only be properly worked around by using the Apple/ Google API.
There's two 'points of failure' if you like around these apps. Actually there's more, but the two most relevant here are:
1 - The ability to register other handsets within bluetooth range (The actual exchange of tokens). This is hampered in apps not using the A/G API by the privacy protections built into the operating systems. This is more of an issue with iOS than Android, though the full figures were 4% of iPhones, 75% of Android phones, so the problem is not entirely absent in Android. This is probably caused by later versions of Android adopting some of the protections built into iOS. Also only fair to point out, the 4% of iPhones were 4% of iPhones where the device was locked and the app in the background, not 4% of total iPhones.
2 - The ability of Bluetooth to accurately judge distances. Bluetooth was never designed as a method of measuring distance. It's not great at it. The NHSX app appears to have been better at this than apps based on the A/G API, possibly because in the NHSX app the devices inform each other what type of device they are (Eg an iPhone 8 or a Samsung Galaxy S10 etc), so it can take into account the characteristics of the bluetooth radio stacks in those devices. The A/G API doesn't allow this, so those characteristics can't be taken into account. The surrounding environment can also affect how well bluetooth transmits (Bluetooth is just radio waves like any others), for example the metal in a train carriage can cause anomalies. The argument is just how bad the distance detection is, and whether it's better to have a system that works to a degree, but may give anomalous results, or just not to have a system.
Other interesting news is the fact that Northern Ireland is working towards releasing a A/G based app, and thinks it can release it in a matter of weeks. If they manage it, that could cause a degree of embarrassment in Downing Street....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53200521
Sod embarrassment (well the actual U.K. developers should hang their heads in shame) politicians don’t develop apps developers do. There's two 'points of failure' if you like around these apps. Actually there's more, but the two most relevant here are:
1 - The ability to register other handsets within bluetooth range (The actual exchange of tokens). This is hampered in apps not using the A/G API by the privacy protections built into the operating systems. This is more of an issue with iOS than Android, though the full figures were 4% of iPhones, 75% of Android phones, so the problem is not entirely absent in Android. This is probably caused by later versions of Android adopting some of the protections built into iOS. Also only fair to point out, the 4% of iPhones were 4% of iPhones where the device was locked and the app in the background, not 4% of total iPhones.
2 - The ability of Bluetooth to accurately judge distances. Bluetooth was never designed as a method of measuring distance. It's not great at it. The NHSX app appears to have been better at this than apps based on the A/G API, possibly because in the NHSX app the devices inform each other what type of device they are (Eg an iPhone 8 or a Samsung Galaxy S10 etc), so it can take into account the characteristics of the bluetooth radio stacks in those devices. The A/G API doesn't allow this, so those characteristics can't be taken into account. The surrounding environment can also affect how well bluetooth transmits (Bluetooth is just radio waves like any others), for example the metal in a train carriage can cause anomalies. The argument is just how bad the distance detection is, and whether it's better to have a system that works to a degree, but may give anomalous results, or just not to have a system.
Other interesting news is the fact that Northern Ireland is working towards releasing a A/G based app, and thinks it can release it in a matter of weeks. If they manage it, that could cause a degree of embarrassment in Downing Street....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53200521
We should be cheering them on then if it works take it on for the U.K. if suitable.
God what a joke people here seem to love bashing anyone and everyone stand up for our country or if you think you can do better step forward and hop onto the development team. Armchair bashing is a sign of weakness.
Welshbeef said:
God what a joke people here seem to love bashing anyone and everyone stand up for our country or if you think you can do better step forward and hop onto the development team. Armchair bashing is a sign of weakness.
I don't think refusing to work on an Orwellian tracking system is "weakness". I think failing to see these things for what they are is rank stupidity.bhstewie said:
Interesting
Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
A lot of elderly folk already wear a fall detector which has an inbuilt gps tracker so that in the event of a fall, or other emergency, your contacts can be alerted and assistance dispatched. Something like this;Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
https://www.buddi.co.uk/faq/general
I can't imagine too many complaints from that age group if they were issued with a wearable contact tracer foc and would overcome the need for everyone to have an up to date smartphone that many don't want or need.
I did suggest this solution a while back!
pequod said:
bhstewie said:
Interesting
Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
A lot of elderly folk already wear a fall detector which has an inbuilt gps tracker so that in the event of a fall, or other emergency, your contacts can be alerted and assistance dispatched. Something like this;Coronavirus: Why Singapore turned to wearable contact-tracing tech
Meanwhile I presume we're just crossing our fingers and hoping post-it notes in pubs and restaurants and hairdressers will do the job.
https://www.buddi.co.uk/faq/general
I can't imagine too many complaints from that age group if they were issued with a wearable contact tracer foc and would overcome the need for everyone to have an up to date smartphone that many don't want or need.
I did suggest this solution a while back!
Mandatory tracking of every single person on pain of punishment is another thing.
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