F1 Sucks These Days
Discussion
So I’ve just watched the 1986 Australian GP on YouTube and it was a brilliant watch. Truly was the Golden years. It also really puts modern F1 into perspective.
All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
It did look like the cars were actually tricky to drive back then though. I know they still are but it doesn't look like it. Biggest difference between now and then is the number of people involved, the money involved and how much they know about everything in advance. The chances of an upset back then were pretty high.
It's all about perceptions. The reality might be that the individual races aren't that much different in isolation to that period but the perception (which is all that matters when you're talking audiences) is that one team has won everything for 7 years. There have been dominant periods before but not for so long and especially without rule changes to break that domination. If F1 survives in anything like it's current format we'll have to wait another season or two at least for a shakeup.
It's all about perceptions. The reality might be that the individual races aren't that much different in isolation to that period but the perception (which is all that matters when you're talking audiences) is that one team has won everything for 7 years. There have been dominant periods before but not for so long and especially without rule changes to break that domination. If F1 survives in anything like it's current format we'll have to wait another season or two at least for a shakeup.
Nampahc Niloc said:
So I’ve just watched the 1986 Australian GP on YouTube and it was a brilliant watch. Truly was the Golden years. It also really puts modern F1 into perspective.
All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
The road to commercialism and "professionalism" was already well and truly underway by 1986. The last "great" and "classic" F1 season was probably 1967 - the last year before both commercial sponsorship was allowed to be shown on the cars and the last year before downforce raised its ugly head. And also the last full season which featured the great Jim Clark.All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
The 86 season was one of the best battles for the Drivers' Title I can remember. It was a true 4 way battle until the last few races, with 3 teams involved - and even in the final race, you had 3 drivers and 2 teams able to race for the title.
The Hybrid era has been very dull with only 1 team able to win the title almost every season - we saw brief spells of Ferrari being quicker, but these were soon overturned by a Mercedes development.
The last time we had proper, tight, title challenges were in 2 of Seb's 4 seasons at Red Bull. (It's amazing that few people even remember how tight 2010 and 2012 were).
The Hybrid era has been very dull with only 1 team able to win the title almost every season - we saw brief spells of Ferrari being quicker, but these were soon overturned by a Mercedes development.
The last time we had proper, tight, title challenges were in 2 of Seb's 4 seasons at Red Bull. (It's amazing that few people even remember how tight 2010 and 2012 were).
sparta6 said:
Tyre management is rather dull for TV.
Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
Problem with refuelling is that all the overtaking end up happening in the pits. It was like watching time trials, where everyone was flat out all of the time, but on completely separate strategies. Very little wheel-to-wheel racing and you never really knew what the outcome was likely to be until the last phase of stops were done.Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
We view the "good old days" through rose tinted glasses because we only remember the memorable races, so 100% of our memory of "old" F1 is that it was exciting, but there were a LOT of boring races too, we just don't remember them because they weren't memorable.
It's exceptionally easy to pick races from any era and determine it was much better 'back then' but determining if this is fact is impossible. It's entirely subjective because it's not about things being better or worse - just different.
Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
StevieBee said:
It's exceptionally easy to pick races from any era and determine it was much better 'back then' but determining if this is fact is impossible. It's entirely subjective because it's not about things being better or worse - just different.
Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
Did you actually read my original post?Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
Nampahc Niloc said:
StevieBee said:
It's exceptionally easy to pick races from any era and determine it was much better 'back then' but determining if this is fact is impossible. It's entirely subjective because it's not about things being better or worse - just different.
Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
Did you actually read my original post?Saying F1 sucks these days really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I can't think of an era when the cars and teams were as closely matched as they are at the moment. A recently as the Ferrari/ Schumacher period, races would be won by margins often measured in laps. You might not like the current F1 and that's fine - it's not for everyone - but suck?....nope.
sparta6 said:
Tyre management is rather dull for TV.
Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
I don't think refueling would help as it would just encourage fuel saving modes. I reckon forcing them to run full tanks from the start would encourage them to push more to get rid of excess fuel. Not very environmentally friendly but it should give better racingMaxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
sparta6 said:
Tyre management is rather dull for TV.
Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
Nope. With refueling and durable tyres, car performances converge towards the end of the stint - so races become more processional towards the end of the race which is the opposite of what we want. Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
Mr_Thyroid said:
sparta6 said:
Tyre management is rather dull for TV.
Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
Nope. With refueling and durable tyres, car performances converge towards the end of the stint - so races become more processional towards the end of the race which is the opposite of what we want. Maxing them out is rather more exciting.
Solution: reintroduce refuelling
I don't recall the Schumacher Ferrari having particularly durable tyres during 2000 / 2001 and the McLarens were faster.
3 or 4 pitstops usually meant the quick guys were on the limit each lap with a nice light car.
Angpozzuto said:
I reckon forcing them to run full tanks from the start would encourage them to push more to get rid of excess fuel. Not very environmentally friendly but it should give better racing
I've always thought this, and I don't think the environmental impact would be significant. It wouldn't even have to be full tanks.From the car telemetry data, scrutineers could record the amount of fuel used by the cars on their fastest qualifying lap. Take the highest value from all of the cars, which I can't imagine is hugely different between them. Each car must start with that amount of fuel multiplied by the number of laps. It might only be a litre or two more than they put in now, but it's eliminated the need to fuel save. I can't really see any downsides to this.
That just leaves us with the tyre saving issue. I haven't really thought this through properly for the negatives before posting, but how about minimum number of tyre changes per race based on the optimum strategy calculated by Pirelli. i.e. If Pirelli say the optimum is a one stop race, have a minimum of two tyre changes? Instead of 2 tyre saving stints, you'd have 3 'pushing harder' stints.
This would obviously take away the strategic element of the race to a certain degree, but it may potentially be worth it.
Nampahc Niloc said:
So I’ve just watched the 1986 Australian GP on YouTube and it was a brilliant watch. Truly was the Golden years. It also really puts modern F1 into perspective.
All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
In my head I was countering every point you made, until I read the last line All we talk about these days is tyre wear and which compound is best. Funnily enough I’ve just sat through 2 hours of Murray Walker and James Hunt discussing the pros and cons of the B compound against the C compound and how important it is to preserve the tyres (great to hear their voices though). This all concludes with two pretty high profile tyre blow outs.
The second reason F1 sucks these days is the fact only 2, maybe 3 teams could win a race, with the likes of Williams basically not worth being there. 1986 was much better. Williams and McLaren dominating with a couple of Lotus wins. And it was brilliant that in Adelaide only 2 cars finished on the leading lap.
And another thing: the fact that cars these days have different engine modes is ridiculous. This means most of the race they aren’t even going flat out. The Turbo era was far better. When Walker and Hunt weren’t talking about tyre wear, they were talking about fuel usage and boost setting.
Finally F1 these days is too commercialised. It’s all about the money. Not like back in the 80’s when it was far more ethical. I much prefer the tobacco sponsorship pretty much everywhere you look.
Excuse my sarcasm. It was a brilliant race but it really shows just how rose tinted some people’s goggles are.
I did actually think that the 1986 race was exciting, even though I know what happens in it. I do think someone else on these forums have shown that finishes today are generally closer through the field than they were in the 1980s, but back then they did seem able to follow eachother more closely without breaking their tyres or aero at least. On the other hand, they defended far less rigourously because, well I'm not sure. I'll guess that a) a crash was more dangerous and b) the cars were easier to lose control of if you did something terrible like weaving on the brakes or something.
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