Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 7)
Discussion
Vanden Saab said:
Oh no it is far worse than astonishing...
Get COVID-19, recover, months later, walk under a bus - and PHE reckons you died of COVID-19.Or suffer any other totally unrelated fatal event and it's still a COVID-19 death.
How can Boris let it happen? Hyperashtonishing shtuff.
turbobloke said:
"Anyone who has tested COVID positive but subsequently died at a later date of any cause will be included on the PHE COVID death figures."
It's OK. Partial, inhomogeneous and basically inadequate data from various sources is fine if it facilitates a pop or two at the government from those who didn't vote for it and/or don't want it.
PHE yet again and setting out the case for their abolition yet again. It's OK. Partial, inhomogeneous and basically inadequate data from various sources is fine if it facilitates a pop or two at the government from those who didn't vote for it and/or don't want it.
turbobloke said:
Vanden Saab said:
Oh no it is far worse than astonishing...
Get COVID-19, recover, months later, walk under a bus - and PHE reckons you died of COVID-19.Or suffer any other totally unrelated fatal event and it's still a COVID-19 death.
How can Boris let it happen? Hyperashtonishing shtuff.
I’ve been posting figures here about the falling death rate - seems that in reality the numbers should be even smaller
MOTORVATOR said:
Whereas Sturgeon on the other hand claims no deaths and NRS says it is 13 but they don't count as the families can't register the deaths in time for her daily claims.
Scottish 5 year average deaths last 3-4 weeks is above that average. English equivalent is below.
Say no more.
turbobloke said:
Vanden Saab said:
Oh no it is far worse than astonishing...
Get COVID-19, recover, months later, walk under a bus - and PHE reckons you died of COVID-19.Or suffer any other totally unrelated fatal event and it's still a COVID-19 death.
vaud said:
turbobloke said:
How can Boris let it happen? Hyperashtonishing shtuff.
Because they are an arms length body?We have seen the clear limitations of this approach in this crisis.
Welshbeef said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Whereas Sturgeon on the other hand claims no deaths and NRS says it is 13 but they don't count as the families can't register the deaths in time for her daily claims.
Scottish 5 year average deaths last 3-4 weeks is above that average. English equivalent is below.
Say no more.
All these claims about the stats, this seems odd, as the daily briefing and subsequent pillar 1 and pillar 2 info clearly states two figures, one where Covid is the cause of death, the higher one where covid mentioned on the death certificate.
Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
poo at Paul's said:
All these claims about the stats, this seems odd, as the daily briefing and subsequent pillar 1 and pillar 2 info clearly states two figures, one where Covid is the cause of death, the higher one where covid mentioned on the death certificate.
Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
That isn't what it is saying. Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
The death certificate can say whatever it likes but if PHE are looking at a database and seeing patient A tested for Covid == True and deceased == True then hey presto in the stats you go.
They aren't looking at the cause of death or the time lag between patient release/test date and death they are just checking that the person is dead.
smashing said:
poo at Paul's said:
All these claims about the stats, this seems odd, as the daily briefing and subsequent pillar 1 and pillar 2 info clearly states two figures, one where Covid is the cause of death, the higher one where covid mentioned on the death certificate.
Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
That isn't what it is saying. Excess deaths is then another calculation.
From memory, it is about 45l, 55k and 65k, respectively.
So is the claim that a person with a positive test, recovers, gets hit by us 3 m later, had Covid 19 as the cause of death, ie one of the 45k? Seems impossible for that to happen! I can however believe they may end up in the second category, ie cause of death, run over by bus, recent Covid 19 patient.
But ultimately, a death certificate needs to be signed off, and I cannot beleive any doctor attending or treating a trauma, would say someone died of Covid on a death certificate, there is a Dennis bumper impaled up their jacksie.
The death certificate can say whatever it likes but if PHE are looking at a database and seeing patient A tested for Covid == True and deceased == True then hey presto in the stats you go.
They aren't looking at the cause of death or the time lag between patient release/test date and death they are just checking that the person is dead.
As stated it's shuper ashtonishing.
Mancock said:
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has called for an urgent review into the compilation of coronavirus deaths data in England.
It follows confirmation that reported deaths may have included people who tested positive months before they died.
Scotland and Northern Ireland only include people who die within 28 days of having coronavirus.
Public Health England is responsible for reporting Covid-19 deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724It follows confirmation that reported deaths may have included people who tested positive months before they died.
Scotland and Northern Ireland only include people who die within 28 days of having coronavirus.
Public Health England is responsible for reporting Covid-19 deaths.
Busted.
mygoldfishbowl said:
Has anyone else received one of these? On the back it says the tests only show if someone has the virus at this time and also that the tests are not 100% accurate. For that reason I am wondering whether to do it or not.
mrs got one...we slung it out Edited by mygoldfishbowl on Friday 17th July 10:17
So PHE's Covid stats are compiled in a different way to Scotland for example? The cause of death in care homes is commonly not queried by a doctor, apparently. Other countries report their numbers on a different basis to the UK, it seems. Then there's China and Russia's numbers. 
And yet we have endless posts on here asserting this or that point to support the poster's argument. It makes me wonder whether any of the official reported numbers can be trusted, and how much the numbers are "massaged" for political ends.
And yet we have endless posts on here asserting this or that point to support the poster's argument. It makes me wonder whether any of the official reported numbers can be trusted, and how much the numbers are "massaged" for political ends.
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