Cummings and goings...

[deadslow]

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

[s2art]

deadslow said:

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

Probably because Cummings imagines he himself has the right stuff to for the task in hand. That is keeping Boris focused on the correct things. ( and compared to May, Boris looked like an improvement)

[deadslow]

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

Probably because Cummings imagines he himself has the right stuff to for the task in hand. That is keeping Boris focused on the correct things. ( and compared to May, Boris looked like an improvement)

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

[JagLover]

deadslow said:

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

Gove was taken out of Education because he was attracting too much heat and Cameron didn't want the distraction just before a GE campaign.

His successors at Education have continued most of the policies he brought in.

[s2art]

deadslow said:

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

Probably because Cummings imagines he himself has the right stuff to for the task in hand. That is keeping Boris focused on the correct things. ( and compared to May, Boris looked like an improvement)

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

But was it?

[deadslow]

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

Probably because Cummings imagines he himself has the right stuff to for the task in hand. That is keeping Boris focused on the correct things. ( and compared to May, Boris looked like an improvement)

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

But was it?

I honestly don't know, but they were sacked by the PM cos the improvements were vote losers apparently.

[s2art]

deadslow said:

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

deadslow said:

s2art said:

If they can do a job better than anyone else, I am sure Cummings would back them. One of the mantras of his organisational hero was 'first the men'. Find the men with the 'right stuff' for the task in hand.

Christ almighty, why then is he working for the Poundland Trump?

Probably because Cummings imagines he himself has the right stuff to for the task in hand. That is keeping Boris focused on the correct things. ( and compared to May, Boris looked like an improvement)

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

But was it?

I honestly don't know, but they were sacked by the PM cos the improvements were vote losers apparently.

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

[MarkwG]

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

[s2art]

MarkwG said:

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.

[Electro1980]

MarkwG said:

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

He removed years and years of proven good practice just because “it wasn’t like that in my day!”. Reducing ongoing assessment and returning to end of course exams, going from assessing understanding to testing fact retention.

[s2art]

Electro1980 said:

MarkwG said:

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

He removed years and years of proven good practice just because “it wasn’t like that in my day!”. Reducing ongoing assessment and returning to end of course exams, going from assessing understanding to testing fact retention.

Not convinced. Something went wrong starting in the 70's I think. But getting worse to the extent that students doing STEM subjects were found to be years behind their predecessors on arrival in Uni, particularly in maths. And we were dropping down the international league tables in such areas.

[Tuna]

Electro1980 said:

He removed years and years of proven good practice just because “it wasn’t like that in my day!”. Reducing ongoing assessment and returning to end of course exams, going from assessing understanding to testing fact retention.

Teaching has been a mess for quite a while, and gets kicked around like a political football - with teachers being the most likely to object to all and any change. Successive years of "flavour of the day" teaching mean that we go from peak to trough as teachers struggle with new systems, eventually get the hang of them, and then have to change them all over again for the next popular theory.

Under Gove the teachers "won" - not because of better teaching theory, but because changes were fought tooth and nail, and Cameron didn't have the stomach for a fight. Depending on who you talk to, this was either a great success (boo! interfering government!) or a waste (boo! outdated teachers!). All of which is further obfuscated by the natural cycles of local schools (but *my* kids had a great/terrible experience, which proves...).

[deadslow]

Tuna said:

Under Gove the teachers "won" - not because of better teaching theory, but because changes were fought tooth and nail, and Cameron didn't have the stomach for a fight.

an unfounded assertion/simple opinion

Tuna said:

Depending on who you talk to, this was either a great success (boo! interfering government!) or a waste (boo! outdated teachers!).

which rather proves as above

[JagLover]

s2art said:

Electro1980 said:

MarkwG said:

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

He removed years and years of proven good practice just because “it wasn’t like that in my day!”. Reducing ongoing assessment and returning to end of course exams, going from assessing understanding to testing fact retention.

Not convinced. Something went wrong starting in the 70's I think. But getting worse to the extent that students doing STEM subjects were found to be years behind their predecessors on arrival in Uni, particularly in maths. And we were dropping down the international league tables in such areas.

Gove was clearly a disaster.......

Independent said:

Overall, the global report ranks the UK as 14th for reading, up from 22nd in the previous tests in 2015. The UK has also risen from 27th to 18th in maths and from 15th to 14th in science.

England did better than the other UK countries (where education is devolved so they didn't have the Gove reforms)

https://www.relocatemagazine.com/articles/educatio...

The only comparisons that matter is the international ones as exams set here are continually debased.

[Tuna]

deadslow said:

Tuna said:

Under Gove the teachers "won" - not because of better teaching theory, but because changes were fought tooth and nail, and Cameron didn't have the stomach for a fight.

an unfounded assertion/simple opinion

Unlike this?!

deadslow said:

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

[deadslow]

Tuna said:

Unlike this?!

deadslow said:

was Cummings (and Gove) not previously punted out of Education after their revolutionary and totally amazing innovations turned out to be a crock?

chap, you do understand the difference between a question and an assertion? Don't you?

[Electro1980]

JagLover said:

s2art said:

Electro1980 said:

MarkwG said:

s2art said:

Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/

We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.

He removed years and years of proven good practice just because “it wasn’t like that in my day!”. Reducing ongoing assessment and returning to end of course exams, going from assessing understanding to testing fact retention.

Not convinced. Something went wrong starting in the 70's I think. But getting worse to the extent that students doing STEM subjects were found to be years behind their predecessors on arrival in Uni, particularly in maths. And we were dropping down the international league tables in such areas.

Gove was clearly a disaster.......

Independent said:

Overall, the global report ranks the UK as 14th for reading, up from 22nd in the previous tests in 2015. The UK has also risen from 27th to 18th in maths and from 15th to 14th in science.

England did better than the other UK countries (where education is devolved so they didn't have the Gove reforms)

https://www.relocatemagazine.com/articles/educatio...

The only comparisons that matter is the international ones as exams set here are continually debased.

The international comparisons are meaningless. They have all sorts of fiddling and try and compare radically different systems of teaching. They rely on a set of standard international tests. China is well known to teach to that test, and only pick high performing private schools to take the test.

There is no evidence of exams getting easier. No evidence of “debasement” at all. Lots of evidence for teaching improving and children working harder.

[Tuna]

deadslow said:

chap, you do understand the difference between a question and an assertion? Don't you?

And you understand the concept of a leading question?

[deadslow]

Tuna said:

deadslow said:

chap, you do understand the difference between a question and an assertion? Don't you?

And you understand the concept of a leading question?

ok, chap, its already the weekend, you win

[Jazzer77]

Tuna said:

pablo said:

Every Tory should be embarrassed.

Of what exactly? Vague rumours? Even if you accept the 'Russian influence' at face value, what is he going to do at these meetings, invade the army?

Saw a new term today : Sealioning, its fits Tuna perfectly.